I totally agree with this. TES is NOT about Man. TES is all about the Elder Folk = the Aldmeri = the Mer. The Aldmeri were the original Elven folk natives that emigrated from Aldmeris to Summerset Isle in Tamriel. This makes the Aldmeri the original natives of Tamriel before the Nedes, the first ancestors of men, who immigrated from Atmora to N. Tamriel (aka Skyrim). The Aldmeri are the ancestors of the Altmer (Summerset Isle), Ayleids (Cyrodil), Chimer/Dunmer(Morrowind), Snow Elves/Falmer (Skyrim), Dwemer (Morrowind), Orsimer (High Rock), and Bosmer(Valenwood). There has always been a power struggle between Man and Mer in Tamriel, ever since the Snow Elves attempted genocide of the first humans in Tamriel.

Of these Elven natives, only the Altmer, Bosmer, Dunmer and Orsimer remain with the start of this TES set in 4E Skyrim. The other Elven races are either extinct, or near extinction and a non-entity. Of these remaining Elven ethnic groups, the Altmer are the most powerful and advanced in terms of racial magicka, cultural makeup, and technology. The Altmer are similar to the Nords, who are the only Nedic descendants to resist Elven cultural integration and remain true to their Atmoran roots. Similar to the Nords, the Summerset Altmer are the only Mer civilization that remained ethnically pure and culturally true to its Aldmeris roots. This fact most likely explains the insufferable hubris of the Elves throughout TES lore, particularly the Thalmor Justicars encountered in Skyrim IMO. More specifically, the Mer's superiority to Men in terms of magicka skill stats, technology, cultural makeup, and civilization, has been evident since the earliest days of TES lore. Especially when you consider:

1. The Dwemer were the most technologically advanced of all the Mer: This superiority is also clearly evident when compared to what technological advances men have accomplished in TES lore anywhere in Tamriel. Especially when considering the ruins of their immense underground civilizations in Morrowind, Cyrodil and Skyrim. And particularly their ancient (and still functioning) technology like elevators, logic puzzles, and dreaded creations like dwemer centurions etc. These have persisted for epochs to present TES time.

2. The Ayleids led the Mer in terms of civilization: They were the first of the Mer to establish a vast empire civilization in Tamriel. The heart of the Ayleid empire--the White Gold Tower--was in Cyrodil, which made the Ayleids the original founders of the Imperial city. This also clearly made them technologically and culturally superior to man. An advantage that allowed them to enslave the native Nedic people then living in Cyrodil (who would later become the Imperials). However, with help from their bretheren in Skyrim, these Cyrodil Nedics led by the Slave Queen Alessia, finally rebelled and overthrew their Ayleid masters in 1E (a glimpse of this is in the Songs of Sovengarde & Last King of the Ayleids). Despite this, it was the Mer--and not Man--who were the first to establish an advanced civilization in Tamriel.

3. Why the Imperials aren't the founding fathers of democracy that they seem to be: With the Ayleid defeat, the transisiton of power shifted from Mer to Man in Tamriel. But in a twisted case of Stockholm syndrome, the Cyrodilian rebels were so impressed by Ayleid architecture, that they decided to keep the White Gold city as their own. Then they took the next step and created a new identity--the Imperials--to distinguish themselves from their other Nedic bretheren. But despite this, they also allowed much of the empire of their former Ayleid masters to fall into disrepair. This is evident from the Ayleid ruins all over Oblivion. And yes, the Imperials should receive credit for being the only human ethnic group to successfully govern both Man and Mer since the Imperials won the empire in Tamriel. And they also get credit for shifting from a farming to merchantile economy. This was what allowed Cyrodil to become the cosmopolitan hub of the Empire in Tamriel by the time of Oblivion. But it's also completely ironic that the "advanced" culture and technology of the Imperial's "Cyrodilian Empire"---encountered in Oblivion and now Skyrim---had its origins in Mer civilization and not Man!

3. The Thalmor Dominion conspiracy: The Ayleid defeat gave the Altmer Elves racial justification they needed to finish what their Snow Elf brethren began in early Skyrim---the genocide of all Man in Tamriel. So it should come as no surprise that the Altmer would exploit a weakened Imperial empire after the Oblivion crisis through the formation of the Thalmor Dominion. The Altmer union with their Valenwood brethren was a forgone conclusion by default. Of all the Mer, the Bosmers are the least magically inclined in terms of racial skill advantages (and physical stature).

4. Given the primitive extent of the Bosmer's culture, they were probably the easiest of the Aldmeri to be manipulated. So the racial union of Altmer and Boser had a cohesiveness which allowed the Thalmor to reclaim Mer authority in Cyrodil at the end of the Oblivion crisis. The White-Gold Concordat shifted the balance of power from Man back to Mer following the Oblivion crisis in 3E. The Mer unity in the Thalmor Dominion was what forced the Imperials submit in the Great War in 4E. It forced the Imperials to abandon and betray their Redguard bretheren in Hammerfell in the White-Gold Concordant in 4E. This set the stage for the Civil War fallout in Skyrim....

And now it seems we've come full circle. With the start of Skyrim, this newly forged indentity of Mer has returned to the roots of the epic struggle between Man and Mer. It has returned to the original homeland of the Nedic people where it all first began. For in the Thalmor Dominion, the Mer now roam the realm of Skyrim with a vengance. The Thalmor Dominion is Mer retribution for Man's gradual usurping of power in Tamriel from the Aldmeri. And so the Thalmor exists for only one thing---the extermination of all Man in Tamriel.

So it should come as no surprise that the Thalmor Dominion is so inherently powerful--TES lore has been building up the Mer to the strategic status the Mer has now achieved in modern day Skyrim. So I wouldn't be surprised if the next TES may be an Man v Mer Armageddon of sorts.

I don't think they are that powerful. This is the story of the devolution of the empire from within after the end of the Septim dynasty, moreso than its conquering from a foreign power. One by one they let their provinces slip away, ignored warnings from the Blades, until finally the Dominion were able to achieve a "surprise" invasion that should have been a surprise to no one. Since the empire was unprepared, it pulled forces out of Hammerfell and Skyrim, ceding more territory, and now they're in a last gasp.

The thing that the Altmer have going for them is giving the illusion that they are all-powerful and masters of the arcane. That is how they managed to win their home territory, by claiming that they saved Summerset Isle from the Oblivion crisis.

The Dragonborn has the potential to tip the scales back, however, as a replacement for the Septim emperors.

I see no evidence of technological superiority among the CURRENT races of Mer over the civilizations of Man. The Dwemer were one specific civilization and they are now gone, with no descendants and no successors to carry on their knowledge.

Part of it, as some have said, is timing. The Thalmor are consolidating resources, gaining allies and making schewed military and political actions while the Empire is rapidly going in the opposite direction.The Imperial victory that secured the concordant shows they are not invincible but currently have the upper hand on the Empire. While it remains to be seen if they will be ultimately successful it's not terribly hard to see why they are in the position they are in.

You need to read more of the lore, the Aldermi Dominion is made up of several nations...Alinor, Valenwood, Pyandonea and eventually Elsweyr..their military numbers now rival the Empire. The Thalmor are a very strategic force, they've taken advantage of a lot of the events that have happened in Tamriel's history...the infighting in Hammerfell, the Oblivion Crisis, the Void Nights, the eruption of Red Mountain, Black Marsh leaving the Empire, Morrowind and Black Marsh locked in war, the crumbling of the Empire, Titus Mede II's cowardice and incompetence, ect. The Thalmor have been planning this war out from the very beginning and forging Tamriel's history in their favor.

Sometimes strategy, wit, cunning and deceit make all the difference when fighting a larger enemy. That's Sun Tzu 101.

the dominion has the best archers and the best mages and could possibly have the second best warriors (deadra). yet they will still fall to the might of argonia/hammerfell (either could take out the thalmor)

Exactly, the Thalmor took advantage of the Khajiit' fear during the Void Nights incident...They came in and pretended to know why the moons disappeared, and that they could bring them back. Little did the Khajiit know, somehow the Thalmor figured out why the Moons disappeared and also knew when they returned..And that they would return on their own.

I don't think their population would be as small as some people suggest. It's not like their totally infertile; given that they retain a significant state/kingdom on their own and were able to field armies that occupied the Imperial City (and took on the combined forces of the Empire), we can safely assume that there's a significant Elvish population backing the Aldmeri Dominion; a few million, perhaps (versus the Empire at... I don't know the approximate population of a major medieval Kingdom; Holy Roman Empire at 10-20 million?). As they're masters of magic, the Aldmeri Dominion could probably use the arcane arts to boost crop yields (or simply conjure food?) and eliminate many of the logistical problems that the human-dominated Empire would face; when the humans must spend months constructing roads, the Aldmeri could use magick to streamline the same project.

This would eliminate much of the labor-intensive work that the Aldmeri require; as a principle of economics, technology that streamlines production frees labor-capital for other uses (as this technology -magick- frees up necessary labor in all sectors of the Dominion's economy, that's just more manpower for the war, it seems).

Even if the Elves lack a significant population, they can still field much/most of it in the army (versus humans who, in the modern era, at least, rarely field armies more than 3% of the total population... though that would obviously change in medieval-themed era).

altmer are highly intelligent live for about a thousand years that leaves alot of time for planning and study they had all they needed in place before the empire realized something was wrong.

Precisely. It seems a lot of the debate in the forum in fixiated with a tiny piece of TES history--ie the Civil War. So a lot of folks lose sight of the big picture i.e the ongoing Man vs Mer conflict in TES lore of which the events in Skyrim is a tiny part. So far, all of the threads I've seen on this forum like "Ulfric is a facist!", or "Imperials vs. Stormcloaks" or "Why are Nords so racist??" indicate people seem to be suffering from a large degree of TES lore ignorance and myopia.

And virutally all of the inflammatory rhetoric posted in threads like that fixate on the localized effects in current TES lore i.e the Civil War among humans, the insular Nord attitude towards Elves/magic in general, the existence of the Grey Quarter in Windhelm, the Dunmer's attitude toward Nords/Khajiit/Argonians in general, Ulfric's ban on beastfolk folk within the city walls at Windhelm etc. None of this rhetoric focuses on not their cause i.e. TES history of Man vs Mer which led to conflict like slavery in Tamriel, The Great War which spawned the ongoing Civil War etc. And oddly enough, nobody in any of these threads seem particularly concerned about the Thalmor's sociopathic attidue to ALL NON ELVEN races. If any one group in all Tamriel were racist, it would definitely have to be the descendants of the Aldmeri---with the facist title being awarded to the Thalmor Dominion

Thanks for condensing everthying I babbled about in my earlier thesis!

Lol, indeed. Still, I have to give you your credit for your post as well. Glad to see someone else actually knows what they're talking about.

So many people are blindly going by what is currently going on in Skyrim..Instead of taking the time to research the events that lead up to this point.

STOP MAKING STUPID POSTS AND DO SOME RESEARCH... THEY ARE NOT POWERFUL! They could not even take Hammerfell EVEN when the Imperials abandoned them. They are weak as sh*t.

Always wondered about this. I guess you could say the Dominion is composed of Summerset, Valenwood, and Elsweyr, while the Empire is composed solely of Cyrodiil, the imperial province (everyone else abandoned them). The Dominion forces are probably a lot more unified and driven, while no one in the vastly reduced Empire can really agree on any one course of action.

That's like saying the Roman Empire wasn't powerful because it never completely conquered certain parts of the world.

Thalmor says http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzcWwmwChVE

Its obvious who would win in any close combat, the humans, any fighter will tell you how much diffrence an extra lb or two of lean mass makes let alone the massive diffrences between nords and the elven races, give a man all the skill in the world and eventually he will get tired, give a man enough of a strength advantage and that skill wont count for anything, and elves just aint got the physique plain and simple, there gonna get tired fast and there gonna break easy, the only thing i can see in there favour is magic.

Honestly they look like women and they wear glass armour.... you get to stamp on them and stab them with there own gear at the same time.

Obviously no logic can be applied so my post is complete crap, does make you wonder how the hell they made them so apparently powerfull though.

I have a feeling that the Bosmers will "betray" the Thalmor in the end and help them men (and mer) kick the Thalmor's ass out of Mundus!

The Aldmeri Dominion also have the nation of Pyandonea as allies as well. The tropical elves.

The Thalmor arent powerful yet they were able to put the Empire into submission?

Ah, yes.

The moral of the story here, folks, is that a large, unified civilization (the Dominion) trumps a small, fractured Empire any day. The Empire used this very same principle to its advantage in its heyday, and now it's being turned against it.

So the allies of the Thalmoor are as follows

Stoner cats
An army of adoring fans
tropical elves(they should do well in any excursion into Skyrim)

I am not impressed.

Thalmoor supporters miss one key part.The manish forces do not have to beat all the Thalmoor forces.All they have to defeat is the Thalmoor leadership.
I do not believe it will be an easy task by any stretch.It is also far from impossible.Use the dissdent Altmer to gain intel,Hammerfell and Skyrim both have capable navies according to lore.A series of raids on shipyards and military targets on Summerset isle could help stir up more dissent against the Thalmoor.

Thanks for the history lesson.

It is obvious. The weak emperor needs to be assassinated and the dragonfires need to be lit once again, but the empire needs to remain intact. Let the Dominion know that the Second Imperial line has been established. The Empire will unify once more should this happen.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Aldmeri_Dominion is some more information on the Dominions rise to power yet again.

The lore is shifting with an interesting plot and sub plots. Cannot wait to see how this turns out.

No-one has ever beat the Khajiit on home turf.
Same goes for the Bosmer.

Defeat the leadership of the Thalmor? How?
Youd have to sail for Summerset. On seas controlled by ancient mage-lords.
Divine's only know what happens if you veer into that eldritch mist.
Even if by some sheer luck or providence the remainder of the fleet finally saw the crystal shores, what is to keep them from moving the islands out of the way (again)?

No, it is a question of organisation.
The Mede Empire has lost Hammerfel, Skyrim is in the grip of a civil war, the Thalmor are cool as a cucumber and have everything under control. The Khajiit love them and the Bosmer do not dislike their new importance.