How can the Aldmeri dominion be so powerful?

Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:22 pm

So the allies of the Thalmoor are as follows

Stoner cats
An army of adoring fans
tropical elves(they should do well in any excursion into Skyrim)

I am not impressed.

Thalmoor supporters miss one key part.The manish forces do not have to beat all the Thalmoor forces.All they have to defeat is the Thalmoor leadership.
I do not believe it will be an easy task by any stretch.It is also far from impossible.Use the dissdent Altmer to gain intel,Hammerfell and Skyrim both have capable navies according to lore.A series of raids on shipyards and military targets on Summerset isle could help stir up more dissent against the Thalmoor.

Lol, so much ignorance in this post...and besides, who here is "supporting" the Thalmor?
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WYatt REed
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:59 am

No-one has ever beat the Khajiit on home turf.
Same goes for the Bosmer.

Defeat the leadership of the Thalmor? How?
Youd have to sail for Summerset. On seas controlled by ancient mage-lords.
Divine's only know what happens if you veer into that eldritch mist.
Even if by some sheer luck or providence the remainder of the fleet finally saw the crystal shores, what is to keep them from moving the islands out of the way (again)?

No, it is a question of organisation.
The Mede Empire has lost Hammerfel, Skyrim is in the grip of a civil war, the Thalmor are cool as a cucumber and have everything under control. The Khajiit love them and the Bosmer do not dislike their new importance.
The Khajiit and Bosmer are very adept in their own lands to be sure.

It would be hard for the fragments of an Empire to strike against a building force that has been gaining allies and power.
The mage lords of the Thalmor should be feared and approached with caution.
Not even Tiber Septim could defeat the old Aldmeri fleet so I am thinking this one should not be taken lightly.
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Robert Devlin
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:00 pm

No-one has ever beat the Khajiit on home turf.
Same goes for the Bosmer.

Defeat the leadership of the Thalmor? How?
Youd have to sail for Summerset. On seas controlled by ancient mage-lords.
Divine's only know what happens if you veer into that eldritch mist.
Even if by some sheer luck or providence the remainder of the fleet finally saw the crystal shores, what is to keep them from moving the islands out of the way (again)?

No, it is a question of organisation.
The Mede Empire has lost Hammerfel, Skyrim is in the grip of a civil war, the Thalmor are cool as a cucumber and have everything under control. The Khajiit love them and the Bosmer do not dislike their new importance.

The trouble with the Bosmer and Khajit is they are going to have to play on the road.
I believe the Bretons would like very much to not be removed from the possible.As I understand it they are quite capable mages themselves.They may help.
I do not believe I advocated a full scale invasion of the Summerset Isles.Smaller raids would be all but impossible to stop even if I was willing to cede the Thalmoor have control of the sea,which I don't.If you have something in game that states that I would like to see it.

Summerset coming under direct attack will force the Thalmoor to reallocate assets to where,presumably, they did not want to.Contact could be made with any diisedents left in Summerset.From there you Identify, locate, and eliminate the leadership of the Thalmoor.

Cut off the snakes head and the body will die. Nord Proverb
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Lou
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:26 pm

Isolation. Summerset Isle has no other provinces connecting to it. Therefore other races are less likely to bother with it. Allowing them to advance much faster than the other provinces.
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^_^
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:34 am

I thought it did not contradict the lore , basically the Thalmor have both Summerset isle and Valenwood united , an Elite army (compared to the Imperial army which is in shambles ) and most of the skilled generals of the last war with the Empire are still alive on the Thalmor side .

The Empire has a few talented generals , but it's main strength is Cyrodiil , Skyrim doesn't provide much troops , and the other regions are independent , Hammerfell is fighting alone , BlackMarsh has invaded Dvardenfell which is partly covered in water so only Argonians can live there and they don't care about the Empire , Khajits are independent and basically only High Rock is a strength to be reckoned with and would side with Cyrodiil

Also the Altmers are not as few as the OP makes out , sure they reproduce more slowly , but the fact that they live much longer means they can still reach peaks of population . Besides what matters is the size and quality of the armies , perhaps the Empire has more men , but like human medieval history has shown , a well led , disciplined and well organized corps of professionals or veteran soldiers can make a lot of difference on the field , and if you add that the Thalmor have many of the most powerful mages in Tamriel , i think the balance logically tips in their favour
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bimsy
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:31 pm

The trouble with the Bosmer and Khajit is they are going to have to play on the road.
I believe the Bretons would like very much to not be removed from the possible.As I understand it they are quite capable mages themselves.They may help.
I do not believe I advocated a full scale invasion of the Summerset Isles.Smaller raids would be all but impossible to stop even if I was willing to cede the Thalmoor have control of the sea,which I don't.If you have something in game that states that I would like to see it.

Summerset coming under direct attack will force the Thalmoor to reallocate assets to where,presumably, they did not want to.Contact could be made with any diisedents left in Summerset.From there you Identify, locate, and eliminate the leadership of the Thalmoor.

Cut off the snakes head and the body will die. Nord Proverb
The empire will probably need Breton support, maybe they could try to round up a few Dunmer mages as well.

An attack right now would not be feasible, the Dominion is gaining power the Empire is losing power and they have an inept leader. The Altmer have a history of powerful wizards that can perform epics feats that put most cultures to shame in their understanding and adeptness in the arcane arts. They also had enough power in the past with experience in navel warfare to hold off Tiber Septim.
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Amie Mccubbing
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:25 pm

I prefer Cyrodil how it was portrayed in Oblivion. The whole 'lush jungle' thing should be completeley forgotten. It wouldnt make sense: Imperials are somewhat heavily influenced by Ancient Romans. Civilized, builders, structured, city-life. Jungles wouldnt make any sense what so ever, and that was the mistake. How would imperials come into power if they werent constructing roads, towns, etc?
They were constructing towns and so on. In the lore pages it said that farms, villages and highways fell into ruin BEFORE the coming of Tiber Septim.

Jungles make perfect sense. New Zealand had dense subtropical native bush before the European settlers came and cleared it to build settlements and farms. At the naval battle of Trafalgar?, most of the Royal Navy ships had masts built from one of our native trees.

When carefully managed, a jungle would be the basis for an empire. It would provide all the building materials required for a powerful navy, both military and merchant, for construction purposes such as siege machines, fortifications, towns and so on, as well as weaponry like bows.

It doesn't need to be tropical jungle, subtropical jungle has the same advantages. But what actual advantage does the rolling farmland bring to the empire? Absolutely nothing. The one thing they can produce is food. That's short term. Long term, they can't = because regions like the Amazon when they are deforested don't actually have soil which is very fertile.

Not to mention the climatical changes that such a grand change would bring to the entire continent. Think about it. It's not just deforestation, it's actively changing the climate of the entire continent. Tamriel itself would suffer from soil erosion and droughts. The soil would become increasingly infertile and even arid, and would be eroded very readily. The region could even become a desert region. The Cyrodillic way of life would be completely screwed over then.

Not to mention that it would screw up the climates of the neighbouring lands because now you've got a massive dry spot where there previously wasn't one. Some of the neighbouring lands would get more water than they did normally and suffer from flooding, others would have droughts.
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Roanne Bardsley
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:37 pm

The Dominion's power isn't in their military. It's in their patience and through subterfuge. It was through subterfuge that they brought Valenwood into the Dominion. Elswyr, too, whether they caused the incident with the moons are just took advantage of it.

And the Great War? They made a surprise attack on the Empire, catching them completely by surprise. The Empire took time to recover and react, probably due to it's weak state. In the mean time the Empire lost a lot of territory and what? Three legions? Heavy casualties. But what happened when they did recover and regroup? Well, they crushed the Dominion army in Cyrodiil. Although the Empire used that victory to sign the treaty under "better" terms, Hammerfell kept fighting. They took heavy casualties, but forced the Dominion into another treaty, forcing them to withdraw from Hammerfell.

So militarily, the Great War was a defeat. Their armies were crushed and they gained no territory. Going back to patience and subterfuge, the Dominion's real victory from the Great War were political, supporting their long term goals. Only if they can maintain the goals of weakening the Empire will they have much hope of a military victory.
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Robyn Howlett
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:26 pm

The Dominion's power isn't in their military. It's in their patience and through subterfuge. It was through subterfuge that they brought Valenwood into the Dominion. Elswyr, too, whether they caused the incident with the moons are just took advantage of it.

And the Great War? They made a surprise attack on the Empire, catching them completely by surprise. The Empire took time to recover and react, probably due to it's weak state. In the mean time the Empire lost a lot of territory and what? Three legions? Heavy casualties. But what happened when they did recover and regroup? Well, they crushed the Dominion army in Cyrodiil. Although the Empire used that victory to sign the treaty under "better" terms, Hammerfell kept fighting. They took heavy casualties, but forced the Dominion into another treaty, forcing them to withdraw from Hammerfell.

So militarily, the Great War was a defeat. Their armies were crushed and they gained no territory. Going back to patience and subterfuge, the Dominion's real victory from the Great War were political, supporting their long term goals. Only if they can maintain the goals of weakening the Empire will they have much hope of a military victory.
One cannot discount the powerful of the Altmers powerful wizards.

I certainly would not want to mess with their elder mages.
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Ria dell
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:56 pm

The Thalmor arent powerful yet they were able to put the Empire into submission? :facepalm:


"In what is now known as the Battle of the Red Ring, a battle that will serve as a model for Imperial strategists for generations to come, Titus II divided his forces into three. One army, with the legions from Hammerfell under General Decianus, was hidden in the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Colovian_Highlandsnear http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Chorrol. The Aldmeri were unaware that he was no longer in Hammerfell, possibly because the Imperial veterans Decianus had left behind led Lady Arannelya to believe that she still faced an Imperial army. The second army, largely of http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Nord legions under General Jonna, took up position near Cheydinhal. The main army was commanded by the Emperor himself, and would undertake the main assault of the Imperial City from the north.

On the 30th of Rain's Hand, the bloody Battle of the Red Ring began as General Decianus swept down on the city from the west, while General Jonna's legionnaires drove south along the Red Ring Road. In a two-day assault, Jonna's army crossed the Niben and advanced west, attempting to link up with Decianus's legions and thus surround the Imperial City. Lord Naarifin was taken by surprise by Decianus's assault, but Jonna's troops faced bitter resistance as the Aldmeri counterattacked from Bravil and http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Skingrad. The heroic Nord legionnaires held firm, however, beating off the piecemeal Aldmeri attacks. By the fifth day of the battle, the Aldmeri army in the Imperial City was surrounded.

Titus II led the assault from the north, personally capturing Lord Naarifin. It is rumored the Emperor wielded the famed sword http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Goldbrand, although this has never been officially confirmed by the Imperial government. An attempt by the Aldmeri to break out of the city to the south was blocked by the unbreakable shieldwall of General Jonna's battered legions.

In the end, the main Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil was completely destroyed. The Emperor's decision to withdraw from the Imperial City in 4E 174 was bloodily vindicated.

Lord Naarifin was kept alive for thirty-three days, hanging from the White-Gold tower. It is not recorded where his body was buried, if it was buried at all. Once source claims he was carried off by a winged http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Daedra on the thirty-fourth day." - UESP - The Great War


They did not "put them into submission"... the Empire retook their land, however both sides were weakened; the signing of the White-Gold Concordat was just as much to save the Dominion as it was the Empire. If the Dominion had "put them into submission" then they would be in control of the empire. I don't think you understand the concept of a Concordat, it holds a mutual benefit for both parties.

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Danel
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:29 am

it matters not the dwemer are back in TES7 with borg ships to enslave all other mer and men, then the daedra...etc...
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Austin England
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:25 pm

One cannot discount the powerful of the Altmers powerful wizards.

I certainly would not want to mess with their elder mages.

Their elder mages didn't help them win the war.
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Killer McCracken
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:54 am

Their elder mages didn't help them win the war.
If somebody tried a direct assault on the Summerset mention above they would have to deal with them then.

If just one rode into a battle they alone would be a force not to be trifled with.
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FirDaus LOVe farhana
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:14 pm

If somebody tried a direct assault on the Summerset mention above they would have to deal with them then.

If just one rode into a battle they alone would be a force not to be trifled with.

That might be true, but that doesn't counter anything I said in my post.

While they may be a force to recon with, they've still demonstrated that they cannot adequately project their military might into other territories.
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jessica sonny
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:03 am

The trouble with the Bosmer and Khajit is they are going to have to play on the road.
I believe the Bretons would like very much to not be removed from the possible.As I understand it they are quite capable mages themselves.They may help.
I do not believe I advocated a full scale invasion of the Summerset Isles.Smaller raids would be all but impossible to stop even if I was willing to cede the Thalmoor have control of the sea,which I don't.If you have something in game that states that I would like to see it.

Summerset coming under direct attack will force the Thalmoor to reallocate assets to where,presumably, they did not want to.Contact could be made with any diisedents left in Summerset.From there you Identify, locate, and eliminate the leadership of the Thalmoor.

Cut off the snakes head and the body will die. Nord Proverb

In-game lol.
TES lore is not and has never been limited to what appears in-game.

Barring that sillyness the pedantic side of me also feels the need to point out it is 'Thalmor'.

You cannot invade Summerset if you cannot reach it, something Tiber Septim himself could not.
The only reason Summerset ceded to the Septim Emire was that Tiber had Numidium attack the crystal tower 'from the first era to the fifth'.
Numidium went explodey, the organisation that was tasked with its recovery before is now all but defunct, the Mede empire is in a terrible state and frankly only a miracle can save Tamriel from the Thalmor.
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Neliel Kudoh
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:13 am

That might be true, but that doesn't counter anything I said in my post.
No I am not trying to argue just say nobody can count out the power of the Altmer mage lords.

Also just making a point that an assault on the Summerset is impractical.
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naana
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:52 pm

That's like saying the Roman Empire wasn't powerful because it never completely conquered certain parts of the world.

Your the one making this comparison; the Roman Empire occupied territory twenty times the size of the Dominion.
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Dean
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:21 pm

The only reason Summerset ceded to the Septim Emire was that Tiber had Numidium attack The crystal tower 'from the first era to the fifth'.
Numidium went explodey, the organisation that was tasked with its recovery before is now all but defunct, the Mede empire is in a terrible state and frankly only a miracle can save Tamriel from the Thalmor.
I was wondering about how on earth the empire can stop the Thalmor without something like the Numidium and Tiber Septim. Who know Talos might intervene.

You are right its going to take something epic to overthrow the Dominion and their powerful wizard lords.
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Amy Masters
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:37 pm

If somebody tried a direct assault on the Summerset mention above they would have to deal with them then.

If just one rode into a battle they alone would be a force not to be trifled with.

I believe it was aimed at my post.
Once again I am advocating small raids (think 2 or 3 ships) conducting hit and run tactics.If the Thalmoor want to move the island every time a fishing boat they don't recognize get's close good.I would think it would be a little more taxing on the Eldritch than flipping a light switch but who knows.
Use the tactics the USMC used in WW2.Hit em where they aint.If they def something move on and look for a soft target.
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kasia
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:31 pm

Numidium went explodey, the organisation that was tasked with its recovery before is now all but defunct, the Mede empire is in a terrible state and frankly only a miracle can save Tamriel from the Thalmor.

The thing is the Thalmor can win the war and occupy a province , but they don't have the manpower to occupy all of Tamriel and secure their conquest for the long term , they'd need more allies to achieve that .

A bit like those who tried to invade Russia , you can gain ground but you can't hold it , eventually you will lose it to the guerilla or independentist ( Nords in Skyrim , Imperials in Cyrodiil , Bretons etc ) , otherwise the Thalmor forces would be dangerously stretched . Also according to the lore Hammerfell alone resisted fine against some Thalmor attempts (not at full strength ) and i don't think the Khajit would fight with the Thalmor despite the Moon incident , i think they would still stay neutral and wouldn't fight either Thalmors or Empire but wouldn't side with them either , although perhaps there are things i do not know that contradict it
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Heather Stewart
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:21 am

I believe it was aimed at my post.
Once again I am advocating small raids (think 2 or 3 ships) conducting hit and run tactics.If the Thalmoor want to move the island every time a fishing boat they don't recognize get's close good.I would think it would be a little more taxing on the Eldritch than flipping a light switch but who knows.
Use the tactics the USMC used in WW2.Hit em where they aint.If they def something move on and look for a soft target.
They could move the Isle or set the ship on fire if it got to close, that would be more practical. Its going to take nothing short of a Numidium like miracle to overthrow the Thalmor and the new Dominion.

This is not the real world this is a world of magic and the Altmer wizard lords are the oldest and most powerful magic users in the world. Attacking them even with small raid parties would not be a good thing. Also the Empire does not want to go toe to toe with the Dominion right now they are weak and fragile. Like I said above one Altmer elder soming could be a very comprimising condition to the weakened Empire.
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sas
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:39 pm

The thing is the Thalmor can win the war and occupy a province , but they don't have the manpower to occupy all of Tamriel and secure their conquest for the long term , they'd need more allies to achieve that .

A bit like those who tried to invade Russia , you can gain ground but you can't hold it , eventually you will lose it to the guerilla or independentist ( Nords in Skyrim , Imperials in Cyrodiil , Bretons etc ) , or the Thalmor forces would be dangerously stretched . Also according to the lore Hammerfell alone resisted fine against some Thalmor attempts (not at full strength ) and i don't think the Khajit would fight with the Thalmor despite the Moon incident , i think they would still stay neutral and wouldn't fight either Thalmors or Empire but wouldn't side with them , although perhaps there are things i do not know

Oh that is correct.
However their ultimate goal is not to conquer Tamriel.
The war is a diversion.
They like the civil war in Skyrim, that Hammerfell ceded from the Mede Empire must have them chuckling evilly and that Morrowind and the Hist keep each other busy also doesnt hurt.
The plan is to uncoil the dragon. To do that they must destabilise the pillars that hold the world up.
Talos, being the mirror-brother of Lorkhan is a fortification, an affirmation, of Creation.
The plan is to kill all humans, and become gods.
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Marcia Renton
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:55 pm

In-game lol.
TES lore is not and has never been limited to what appears in-game.

This struck me as odd pls elaborate.
I will also use the correct spelling from now on.TY
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darnell waddington
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:23 pm

Magic wins every time.
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Eliza Potter
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:59 am


Talos, being the mirror-brother of Lorkhan is a fortification, an affirmation, of Creation.
The plan is to kill all humans, and become gods.
Also they wish to destroy the Mundas the physical world in their ascension to their once immortal selves.
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Vincent Joe
 
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