I was not even made aware of this by any source of information about this game, until I found an area where there were a few ghoul reavers, one of which finally died, and the other one decided to hide out several hundred feet away from me cross a pool of radioactive mire.

After struggling with a Feral Ghoul Reaver, finally managing to head shot it to death, on Easy difficulty, I should state, I got out of that area, they despite being harder to kill then deathclaws in Fallout 3 for me, at least, at level 4/5, don't drop anything more than a few bottlecaps.

I managed to get back a bit, and run further into a horde of 3 Ghouls and Ghoul Roamers, which by themselves did almost as much damage and were almost as hard to kill as the Ghoul Ravager.

I managed to get them all done, and asked my friend who plays this game a lot, and he said that there were these Hazard areas in this game.

Now, wouldn't that be counter to how Fallout 3 was open ended? How you could explore a lot? This game basically forces you to stay only in one area, and spend a ridiculous amount of time to actually gain good equipment, let alone a decent level?

Without this Choose XP mod I would be spending at least 4 hours struggling to get any experience that doesn't involve me doing a really long "Talk to everyone quest."

Now, if you want to flame me, that's fine, although, I don't know why.

I just want to know why break something that has been a staple of every game in the Fallout series?
Punishing people for exploring, really?
Yes, there were areas of strong monsters in Fallout 1 and 2, but they were obvious. I think they were. I never played them for that long. Impossibly slow experience gain, impossible to hit things ever, etc. yeah. Didn't enjoy them. Also, bugs.

This game does nothing to make it obvious that there are overpowered enemies in certain areas.
No, townspeople telling me that "Deathclaws are to the north." are not a valid warning. I'd shrug it off because I think they were the ones in Fallout 3. Not overpowered uber-deathclaws with armor piercing nails, which really doesn't make sense, okay, neither do Deathclaws, but still, that do insane amounts of damage. Or so I've been told.
I was not aware Deathclaws were really Captain Falcon in disguise.

I was really disappointed in this game for that. Because there is, as I can find, no good supplies of weapon or armor anywhere except for a nice 10 DT armor off of a NCR dead body lying around.

So, if someone could please address this in a nice and kind way, I would enjoy it.
I just fail to see the reason for making it impossible to explore, and almost impossible to gain any kind of equipment in order to explore.

I don't know how often shops respawn, maybe Chet will get better armor later.

TL;Dr Help me understand the point of hazard zones and overpowered enemies to prevent exploration, a staple of the series.

Exploration has never been a staple of the Fallout series before Fallout 3, and if you don't like doing quests that involve dialogue, why did you get an RPG?

Really? I'm fairly certain you couldn't even find some of the easter eggs and various things in the original two games without exploring.

Also, I said be friendly. I'm certain.

And by talking to people, I mean the rather annoying quest that would get this moved to cheats/hints/spoilers if I talked about.
I remember the days where games didn't have you speak to everyone and their brother just to clear up a quest line. Heck, even NWN wasn't that problematic.

I'm also sorry, but if it wasn't mentioned anywhere, there's no way I could tell about these hazard zones.

Also, I've been playing RPGs since before 1991.

But it wasn't the focus of them. It was Fallout 3 that made the big departure from the rest of the series and pushed exploration to the front.

I don't think searching for Easter Eggs is to be considered a "staple" of the series.

Okay. I didn't know that. I truly didn't know.

My friend should have told me that.

Anyhow, I wouldn't be having an issue if it wasn't for the fact that there was literally no indication, no information that told me that there is no way to actually explore in this game beyond a very small range.

Until you get insanely powerful gear.
I just was a bit surprised when stepping on two land mines did less damage than a feral ghoul reaver in 3 hits. On Easy, that shouldn't be a problem in any game that prides itself on be balanced.

And yes, that Ghoul Reaver was harder than the Enclave assault with increased spawns in Fallout 3 after your Dad dies.

I was not expecting these things.

And I never really played Fallout 1 or 2 that much.

Now if someone could please help me find a good collection of armor and weapons, so that I don't have to worry about the dangers of Deathclaws ever, let me know.

I just thought this game was non-linear and exploration friendly. Not please go only in one direction for the longest time, making you do the quest lines to get gear to even try to explore.

I should not be punished because I want to have fun and explore.

There are signs telling you it's dangerous to go further on ahead.

I really don't have a problem going anywhere on Normal, with regular gear, just need the right amount of skill and maybe a companion.

Pretty sure exploration isn't the point of this game. A small pass-time maybe, but not a staple of the series by any stretch. In a post-apocalyptic wasteland are you gonna' go around site seeing? Check out all the abandoned dumps and vast, dry mountainous terrain and the like? Or are you going to stay put, plan a safe route to your next destination and do your very best to avoid being stung to death by cazadores.

As I've said, signs, and even townspeople telling me aren't going to work. Because I came off of Fallout 3.

I'm not thinking I'm playing some Nintendo era hardcoe hard game.

There was no indication, anywhere, besides signs, which really, how is that ever going to help, in locations where signs aren't.
Seriously, I didn't see any sign saying "Now entering a hazard zone."

And again, there was no indication that this game is supposed to be harder than it should be.

There was zero.
There should have been plenty of indication from the game, and from other sources, long before you should wander into a feral ghoul area.

A sign telling you to not go here is never a good indication to not go there.

If someone could please show me a place with good gear, that doesn't require me to go to Hazard zones, I would appreciate it.

Because as I've said before, the ghoul reaver surprise wasn't exactly fair.

Also, as I've said, no indication of this game from any source but inside the game, via townspeople and signs is a bad form for a game.

And did you play Fallout 3, Imperator? Because again, exploration wasn't punished in that game, therefor logically, exploration should not be punished in this game.

Bottom line, there was zero reason for these hazard zones to punish people for exploring. There are plenty of ways to prevent people from getting good gear at a low level.
Forcing a linear path on someone is not a good way to do it. Because who wants to play a game the same way each time, always going in the same path, always.

That would get boring so fast, it would kill the game.

Ah. I have an idea of a way to warn people. Rather than the myriad of signs they have cordoning off the dangerous areas of the Mojave (signs that anyone with common sense would see and respect, promptly turning the other way) they should take control of your character and physically steer him/her away, perhaps then walking your character to a saloon for a diet cola with a hint of lime. Why oh why don't the developers cater to us hyper-casual folk, who get frustrated when a game shows a mere modicum of complexity.

Don't insult a person you know nothing about. That is very bad.
Also, I believe with how you insulted me, you must not know who I am, although, I don't blame you, I'm not on here that often.

First off, I have played games with far logically sound ways of punishing people for trying to get too good gear early.
No indication anywhere, besides signs, sorry, again, signs don't work on someone who comes off of Fallout 3, try again is a bad way of punishing people.

I came off of Fallout 3, and again, no indication in this game that you can't explore until you get good gear.


I am 28 years old, and have been playing games of all sorts since 1986.

I have never once played a game like this. Punishing people like this is a bad form. Especially when there is zero indication inside the game. I honestly don't know why people aren't picking up on that... It is bad form to not make it obvious from the start that you can't explore certain areas until you get good gear, good gear which paradoxically is only in those areas or somehow hidden from me.

Look, I have played RPGs since the original Final Fantasy, I have yet to ever encounter a game like this.

Also, please don't insult people, it completely ruins any chance you have of being respected, let alone anyone accept your opinion.

I have played games that have made this game look about as challenging as connecting the dots.
I have played games that are complex, and I have played games that are simple.


There was no indication that this game was going to be completely different then Fallout 3. Other than some of the changes that were more obvious. VATS having less damage reduction, something which I can easily amend with mods.

Look, if you want to fight me to the death over me having my opinion, that's fine. I don't know why but still.

Could someone suggest a good way to get the gear required to explore. In a nice and friendly way.

Well, you just can't go to the first vendor you come across, buy an Uber Vaporizer of Utter Overpowerdness for $1.95, and charge off in any direction killing Godzillas by shooting from the hip while taking in the scenery. :wink_smile:

Life is tough out in them wastelands, you gotta take your time, talk to the NPC's, do some (preferably most) of the quests you get offered, learn how the game mechanics work, get some levels and some perks and skillpoints, and eventually the nicer guns and armor will come your way. But, as you've found out, there are are no power armors or Uber Vaporizers in the early parts of the game- you gotta put the time and effort and quest-time in, to earn those.

And there are plenty of caves and places and sites to explore as you move on through the game, just realize that some of them will indeed have enemies that are ready, willing, and quite able to kick yer ash through the goalposts, if you aren't cautious and prepared and know your skills and abilities. Some areas, like the reavers you ran into, you are better off avoiding and going around until you are a bit stronger and have better kit, then come back and get some evensies later.

Long before you hit level 30 (or beyond, if you get the DLC's), you will be a stone killer feared by most of the wasteland. It just isn't handed to you at the beginning. :thumbsup:

What I'm not getting you're saying that there is nothing telling you that certain areas ain't safe, but several npcs that tell it's not safe to go a certain way. If you didn't talk to those npcs then there signs warning to not going on to these areas and the only Fallout I played, besides New Vegas, was Fallout 3 and I didn't have any problems with it.

Ah, finally, a really nice person. Thank you Smokeyman

I just want something slightly better than the starting gun, and the rifles I've picked up. I don't need really good weapons and armor.

And quests aren't bad, it's just there should be other ways to get the gear.

I'm level 5 now. Thanks to that Reaver.
Of course, now I have basically no armor. So, I'd have to run back to Chet, hope he sells armor that has a damage threshold slightly higher than swisscheese.
Found Indiana Jones in the Fridge though.

I don't see why this one quest doesn't have a kill the bad guy option. It's just get a bunch of people together to deal with him.
I mean, if the bad guy is even able for you to walk up and talk to, there should be an option to fight him and take care of him.



Okay, I'm really crappy at explaining this, I mean, there is no indication in the game itself, besides talking to people and finding signs that there are uberstrong monsters around.

I'm sorry, but I came off of Fallout 3. There is no indication in this game at all that just because a sign says "radscorpions this way," or a warning about Deathclaws, makes me think that they are several times stronger in this game than Fallout 3.

I am simply saying, having people tell you where to avoid is not a valid way to prevent people from avoiding those areas.

There should have been plenty of indication from before this game was even released, that it was going to have these hazard areas, and that you can't actually explore until you get really high level and good gear.

Again, I came off of Fallout 3, there is zero indication that a Deathclaw in this game is supposed to be a lot stronger than a Deathclaw in Fallout 3. Let's not forget the Feral Ghouls. No one is going to think a standard Feral ghoul can hit harder than standing on a land mine.

I understand making it hard for you to get good gear.
But still, Feral Ghouls and anything with that in their name that isn't a Glowing One shouldn't be able to slice you up and your armor faster than a Deathclaw in Fallout 3.

:lmao: No offense, but that this game is not even close. Closer than Fallout 3? A little. But it still can't even see that hard games.

The first time can be a bit difficult when you don't know the areas where tough enemies are, however this game has the same enemies in same places everytime, so there'll be no surprises after the first time you visit an area.

In my personal, unpopular opinion, level scaling is the better solution :bolt:

They can't place signs on every square inch of border like some kind of Wall of China, but there are definitely signs, especially near Good Springs.
http://crimsonkeep.com/wallpapers/data/media/33/falloutNV-0001494.jpg
http://crimsonkeep.com/wallpapers/data/media/33/falloutNV-0001495.jpg

Also, in GoodSprings, Sunny warns you about dangers up North, as do a few other NPC's I think.

Outside of GoodSprings/to the South (main game questline direction) it's more about your discovery. Want to explore, could be risky, dare you go into that cave? Save game, go for it, too tough in there, reload, wander off, come back later. The game's enemies are not scaled to your chr. level. There will be areas with harder enemies and lesser enemies but it doesn't take long before it's all kinda cake and pie. Well to me anyway. Skill & speed with controls and attacks etc. is important too. On replays you'll likely find you can kill for ages with your 9mm and Varmint Rifle.

That deathclaw area, btw, can be snuck around even at lvl1, but you have to find the path to do it etc. But I understand if you're new to the game it can be a surprise to round a hill and suddenly find yourself face to face with a Giant RadScorp. If you're new and lvl2, you're gonna die. And there are some monsters that may present a challenge to some players even when you're higher level (unless you're a sniper, hehe)
Really tho...there is exploration in this game. Not as free form as Oblivion type games but it's there. It's just not exploration without possible big risk. I personally like it that way, I don't want a game to hold my hand and tell me "don't go in there, you're not ready" - or worse, block me from it entirely using walls or locked doors or whatever. I want to go in and find out I'm not ready myself. But all subjective.

In terms of gear...just follow the plot until you hit Novac or something. (edit - the way the armor/DT system works, you'll never really be a super-armored dynamo able to withstand any blow - many people never put on more than clothes in this game)

I've been playing games for a long time too, but I have played games "like this." I don't see the big deal personally. If it's not your cup of tea/a type of game you're comfy/good with, that's fine, but it is for many others, and it is not "punishing the player." :rolleyes:

I hardly see why it's punishing to people for not giving an extremely clear warning. The NPCs and the signs do warn you which is the least intrusive way possible really.

Now I ask what was going through your mind as you first stumbled on the Reavers? Panic? Fear? etc....


EDIT: "There should have been plenty of indication from before this game was even released, that it was going to have these hazard areas, and that you can't actually explore until you get really high level and good gear."

Yes they did. They spent quite a few interviews explaining it.

The only problems I've had with enemies is running into a trio of giant radscorpions at level 2 just outside of Goodsprings and then a few times when I rushed into a bunch of enemies instead of planning my attack. I wish the exploration was more like FO3 but I love the game regardless. Also helps having Boone annihilate everything before I even see it.

Maybe that was a poor choice of words, but still, coming from Fallout 3, there's no way I would have ever known that Level Scaling wasn't in this game, or that exploration is impossible until you do a very linear quest line.

And what do you mean games like this? There are no games like this that I know of.
Maybe Balder's Gate 2, but still.




Well, I played Nintendo Hard games, they're not all that bad. The Guardian Legend is one of my favorites, and it's considered up there with Contra.

Back to LadyCrimson, as I said, I'm crap at explaining things, but signs, even people telling you not to go somewhere is a very bad way to stop people from going somewhere and doing something.

I came from Fallout 3 to play this, and received no indication that A. There was no level scaling, and B. Deathclaws in Fallout 3 have nothing on Ghoul Roamers.



Ah, well, I never watched or read any of the interviews.

Again, it should have been made more clear in the game itself. Not just signs and warnings. That seriously is not going to work at warning anyone. Even with what I know about Deathclaws form Fallout 3.

As for the Reaver, I just thought it was a slightly stronger than normal Ghoul. It wasn't that hard, except for the fact that I didn't know at the time apparently they are more dangerous than Deathclaws in Fallout 3.

Yes, I had to run backwards when it was hitting me harder than well, Deathclaws, and stepping on two land mine hurt less.

I came from Fallout 3. I never once though this game was going to change so many things around.

That and it kept giving me a concusion.

You're right about the unpopular bit.

Levelscaling (excessive one, not cleverly used) just stagnates the experience.

Well, I'm sorry there aren't big signs out there everywhere saying "Danger, Monster That Can Eat Your Liver With A Smile Ahead, 100 Yards!" (although it was nice of them to put them out for the deathclaw zone north of Goodsprings ). But, you just gotta learn to use your head for something besides a hat rack, and be careful and cautious- there are no Barney's out there, and nobody in the Wasteland loves you- literally.

Use sneak a lot, and skill it up pronto. Travel and explore at night, with sneak, and use cover and shadows as much as you can. Go slow- stop a lot, look around carefully, pay attention to your threat indicator on your compass bar. Red = baddies. Movement usually = baddies. Learn to pay attention to the [HIDDEN] indicator, and what it means when it goes to [CAUTION] or [DANGER!]. Get a nightscope and silencer mod for the rifle from Chet, ASAP. Get guns skill up, ASAP. Learn to do sneak headshots with it from good range, and most of your early problems will be greatly lessened.

It don't take a lot of science to figure out which enemies you can plunk off, and which ones or groups of them that you should just avoid for now. If you prefer learning the hard way, just get used to doing quicksaves before you march bravely into the maw of death.

I mean games that, at least at some point in the game, let you explore pretty freely and run into all kinds of nasties that you perhaps aren't ready to handle yet.
To my recollection, the Might & & Magic series did that. Or maybe some of the Wizardry series. They had their training area to be sure, but it was short and then you were dumped into the world where you could do the plot or try running around to see what you could see. Couldn't access everything perhaps, but plenty you weren't going to be ready to deal with. Other games too, but I'm not going to rattle them all off.

Edit: Also, I'm not sure what you're expecting the developers to do. Post signs every few feet that says "warning, the deathclaws/ghouls in this game are stronger than in the previous game?" That would be out of place and immersion breaking. If you don't like to read reviews/research the game before hand (even if minimally), then...that's not really the developer's problem. Even before the internet I'd read game reviews in paper magazines first before spending hard earned money and all.

I guess I never played those games.



Okay, I think we have a huge misunderstanding. I am never ever, ever going to play a sneak character. I am not a Ninja.
I am all about shooting people in the head with guns.

I am sorry that I was again not clear enough in my complaints against this game, to me, signs do not work to deter me. I fought Deathclaws in Fallout 3 before. I have no reason to think the ones here are stronger. THankfully I have yet to run into them.

Same with Scorpions.
If anything, I would ignore any warning about them.

If I saw a giant Scorpion, I would shoot it's tail a whole bunch, but if I wasn't doing any major damage, you can bet I'd complain about it on this forum.

Regardless, I liked the game, but there was zero way for me to know about the difficulty changes in this game at all. Zero.

I thought it was like Fallout 3.
I am sorry for thinking that.

Yes it's a fun game, but I'm not going to run around as a Ninja ever.




No! I am not asking for that. Gah.

I wanted something better than signs. And I bought this game when It first came out. I didn't play it long enough back then.

I'm sorry, but signs are worthless to someone who came into this game from Fallout 3.
There is many ways of dealing with placing strong enemies in their game, and this game didn't do it the right way.

At least, IMHO.

I'm tired, hungry, and I think everyone here wants to kill me with fire, so I'm going to go for a few hours.

You learn as you play. Shouldn't it be part of the fun that you do not always fully know what to expect?