And yet contrary to typical all or nothing type responses like this, the matter of balance and trade off is NOT a black or white thing. I had no problem with the level of graphics in Oblivion, nor with the fact that unique voice acting didn't exist for every one of the more diverse set of responses and text dialogues. Even Morrowind's graphics were insanely better with just one major mod (graphics extender) and better heads and bodies.

Hearing the same set of voices was a bit annoying, but then I hear that in Skyrim too, and the graphics are better, but not a huge deal better. No, that's not even the point though is it? My point was that the trade off lost us far more important things to role playing "ease" if you will than it gained. And even more to the point, the charge of "use your imagination" is much better applied to the wrapping paper (graphics and sound) than to game play elements. Far easier to imagine the voice you want person 3407 to speak in than to "imagine" your way around the lack of spell making, or generic making impact of every character being the same strength, intellect, speed, acrobatic ability, etc. How do you imagine the reality that weapons or armor would wear out when the game play mechanic that at least simulated it is gone?

And yes a text statement can convey far more realism than a cheap sound effect and is even the better choice in some situations. But as I said, you misrepresent by implying that this is the only alternative to what we got in Skyrim. They left far more to the imagination and still had a better claim to the title of RPG in Oblivion and Morrowind even with plenty of those sounds recorded for you. That is the real claim here, that Skyrim took steps backward for role play options. Not that the solution should be going all the way to text adventures. I agree.

I CAN'T HEAR YOU! LaLaLaLaLaLa

More realistic/immersive dialog options would take some seriously complicated scripting and I think it would affect the FPS too since it all needs to be loaded.
Be happy it's not like in Oblivion, where you shout 'rumors', and then the person tells you the same line with the same voice for the 9999th time.

except you (and a lot of other people) tend to also think that these graphics come with a trade off.

So the reason we have moving streams is because we don't have attributes? There's no tradeoff, it doesn't work that way, the only thing in the way would be the budget, which is obviously not a problem right now. If a text is written, it can be voice acted, not even Morrowind created dialogs dynamically. We don't have better textures for swords because they don't degrade, spells are not looking better because there's no spellmaking, running animations are not fixed because there's no athletics...

The two have nothing in common, these tend to be worked by completely different people too, there's no such thing as "focusing too much on graphics", when you have a full team.

Also, one of my bigger annoyances with Morrowind: Which gives a bigger impact, reading a text about a dream with Dagoth Ur walking around and being creepy, or having a CGI cutscene that does the exact same thing?

They have gotten rid of the "armor tredmill" end game gear from specific "raids" or areas are not better then others in stats wise it changes appearances grows your e peen more then anything. Classes as the "norm" mmos have do not exactly exist everyone can heal/dps/tank no matter the class unlocking new skills are not based on level its more based on each kind of weapon level use sword more get more skills with sword switch too axe you start over that can be said as a "grind" but only if you want to do such. Game is focused on PVP more so then PVE while there is PVE content and the way such content can be done with truly dynamic events and zones being tied into each and every quest makes the game feel more more unpredictable as say Skyrim or other mmos/RPG's that has you doing the same exact content over and over again of course if you happen to get lucky and a area gets revamped is the only exception too this.

If Skyrim acted similar to the way Guild Wars 2 PvE content is being portrayed as Skyrim certainly will be a lot more capable to get "immersed" into the game because of the chain of events that happens and leading consequences or benefits. For example for Skyrim if a dragon attacked riverwood you chose not to defend it and run away the consequent of doing such is riverwood being burnt down to the ground unable to use it services and futhure more effect other cities as well like windhelm that gets resources from riverwood changing the the economy (something that was actually noted by Todd himself in a video prior to release that Skyrim had wasn't a thought or a what if it was stated that Skyrim had such content already alas we don't).

Even if it was small events only effecting Riverwood itself and not others it would still allow the player to feel more part of the game sadly nothing similar or even trying to do something similar is in game you have no influence on the world other then you pulling a lever or killing someone that just changes you used something or you can't talk to that person anymore WOW. Joining a certain guild killing a certain "king" of a certain city guards of that city allow you one that they can recognize because of the speech context they used still let you walk around their town or any town. This applies to every guild in Skyrim your actions no matter what they are do not have consequences.

Some say that having such would be a "Downer or a bad thing to have" those that say such are idiots any mechanic that allows anyone to feel not just be but feel part of a game getting absord into it even more so then what Skyrim currently is "I R BIG WORLD I MUST EXPLORE" which is what I can tell is fun for many would make the game much more impressive now before you say that it is not possible because it is not a MP game but SP game you are wrong even Oblivion had something that resembles this you closed the gates a noticeable change on the world you got rewarded a statue in your honer for your acts and people recognize and hail you. Hell even the annoying fan has this in him you became grand champion you get the "Luxury?" of having a fan while it is a small touch it still is something that Skyrim has none of whatsoever. Those that disagree fine your making the game more then what it is "RPing" can only go so far balancing a game based on RPing is not right creating entire effects of the game is also not right. You can role play pong being a war against to armies bouncing back a nuclear bomb and whoever misses looses 10 million people at a time and every nuke you allow means more starving citizens and chaos of your world. But in reality all it is a ball being paddled across the screen.

Do you get to the Cloud District often? Oh, who am I kidding? Of course you don't.

I seem to hear this every time I go in the Whiterun market even though I am the Thane of Whiterun and have done numerous quests within Whiterun.

This is because Todd and others have been on record saying that leaving some things out was a choice meant to allow for the greater space the larger world, better graphics, and more voice acted data required while staying within limitations of the XBox (a fact that even an XBox player of it like me among many dislike). All of those things are or have been identified as some of the "things cut". So yeah, it literally is a trade off, unless you have a reason to believe they were lying. Or perhaps his "graphics is the most important thing" comment was a joke?

It's true that they would not need worry over total file size limitation for the computer version, but that doesn't help us who play it on console. And once again, imagination is better suited to bridging shortcomings in graphics or sound than solving lack of game play mechanics. So as long as Bethesda sticks to their guns on the "it's better this way" line, then I'll stick to my answer to the "use your imagination" crowd that they left the wrong thing up to imagination and took a step backwards.

Im all for imagination, but damn I should be able to play off of decisions and actions that are presented within the game. I shouldnt have to rely on alot of my imagination. I want to be able to make decisions based on complex choices. Now, Skyrim does offer options, dont get me wrong. On the other hand, its hard for me to imagine dialogue, recognition, or depth from alot of the npcs. They often repeat, dont say the right things related to my character, or contradict themselves based off of my character (depending on race,class,etc). To pretend theyre saying something else isnt very immersive. I shouldnt have to imagine that Im having fake convos with npcs to experiance something deeper just for the outcome(s) to be something in left field down the line (more dialogue,quest,etc). On top of having to hear npcs repeat things over and over after I just had a fake convo with them. Its sort of game breaking. How do you "imagine" that away?

An rpg-world needs to rely on both imagination and creativity of the player and the design and construction by the designer.

You can't simply state "it's up to your imagination" as well as you can't simply demand that "everything my character wants to experience must be represented in the design".

Content does not take up much space, that's just a myth, it is not because of the voiceacting or the graphics or anything of such sort that the game doesn't have more developed questlines or NPC interaction. The amount of data required to keep track of factions, decisions and NPC conversations is insignificant. I am not disappointed with the content at all, as far as TES games go, it exceeded my expectations, but if you are unhappy with it and want to criticize the designers and programmers, don't blame the voiceacting or graphics, because that has very little to do with it.

It could also be said that people who enjoy the game are not making excuses for Bethesda at all but rather are thinking about why things would logically take place. It's just as bad for example, that everyone knew I was the MadGod in SI by some bizarre teleptahy that was never explained, so I had to think of reasons it could be so. In OB, people that I just met, ten minutes after I completed a major event, who ahd no way to know what happened and no time to learn it from others knew as much about my closing an oblivion gate as I did.

So, is it fair to call your statement 'selective rationalization', because you conveniently ignore the other side of the coin? Should I announce that you're simply looking for ways to attack Bethesda?

I think that in cases like this, some people are looking for nothing more than excuses to have fun, not looking for chnaces to excuse Bethesda. Why should I heap doubt on people that are trying to have fun playing a fun game? Why would I take your side when you seem to be looking for chances to heap blame on a game you don't like as well as you might? It's essentially a choice to have fun or be mad. I'll choose the Fun. It's why I bought the game

Agreed, some rationalization will always be needed to properly RP as it is practically impossible to make a game that constructs everything for you - you're always gonna need to rationalize the odd glitch, or when you go beyond the "bounderies" that the game is programmed to. Expecting a company to think of everything is rather foolish, which is why we praise when they do things we don't expect; it's not something we thought would be reasonable to assume they'd do so we're happy they did. We should have been just as happy had they not, as it was unexpected, for example NPCs reacting to very minor things you do.

That said for large scale things it is understandable for there to be some expectation by the developers. In the case of Farengar the amnesiac mage, I would suggest that the simplest solution other than say, adding a condition to his dialogue line would have been to not include that line at all.

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=9557

That is a awesome mod. Thanks for sharing it.

Always, glad to help. It does not remove MQ though, you might want to usehttp://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=9048 then.

Nice!
I should search on the Nexus much more. Didnt think that mods like this are already out

Man, if it wasnt for imagination none of us would be gaming! In fact even real life would be flat and drab and boring and dumb without imagination. Imagination is the foundation of the truly human world. The human world is after all a mind-made world...an imagined world.

The intelligence issue in games is a different matter. Some people 'imagine' there is intelligence in computers...that AI means 'intelligence'...but of course it doesn’t. It's a euphemism. Computers have zero intelligence. What they have is programs made by intelligent humans which attempt to simulate intelligence. In the case of Skyrim I think the scale of the game is too big for any developer to produce AI code that would satisfy us to the extent of simulating real world human actions and responses. The permutations involved in computing consistently realistic responses in a game world as large and complex as Skyrim are beyond the capabilities and budget of any developer. The only reason chess programs can defeat competent humans is because the permutations of winning moves are relatively few and fixed. (Remember I did write relatively). Also it took decades of research and development to produce such programs.
That said I do think there is a lot of room for improvement; for example, in general respones to the player as the game unfolds…I’m thinking here of the inappropriateness of a guard goading a Thane about his sweetroll…I wonder is that something which can be upgraded by mods?

Among the many reasons i've put down skyrim already and moved on. Don't think modding is going to do it for me, and can't right now due to so many bugs with the ck.

Easy to fix if you don't mind the game cost $250.

11/11/11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4sUPvDZfog

I agree with the sentiment that some seem to play just to pick apart what they do not like.But most of those start with "I have played 300 hrs and this is what they did wrong."
They have made a game that pleases everybody even those that do not like it.
Well done Bethesda

A good example of that http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1333593-oblivion-is-the-last-elder-scrolls-with-extended-character-build/. He's played Skyrim for 413 hours and he can't stop talking about how bad the game is.

how do i RP in skyrim? easy!

1) start the game

2) use my imagination.

.......

exactly saying its bad after that many hours just doesnt make sense, im not saying its perfect but that's alot of time youvve been kept happy by it.

Honestly people, WTF do you expect from games built on 5-6 years old pice of [censored] hardware. Im a xbox 360 user/owner som Im part of the problem, but still the world is more than ready for a new console.

Its scary to watch my macbook pro run skyrim on ultra graphics with OS X when my xbox cant even have decent textures. Im pretty sure Skyrim would be a lot better if it only were made for PC. So even games released next year will be limited by at least 7 years old hardware, which is pretty damn nice thing to think about.

And oh, have nice day and think about what could have been.

everyone agree's, the reality is though there all waiting for something as in, something good i imagine is being devoloped.