That's a general Nord war cry, you hear it from bandits and imperial Nords as well. Take one of the Nord mercenaries with you and you'll hear them shout it at mudcrabs. It's hardly a defining philosophy. lol

The Stormcloaks do want Nords to rule Skyrim, but I don't see how this is more arrogant than the Nord-Cyrodiilic empire wanting to rule the entire continent.

Imperials soldiers also shout "Skyrim for the Nords". Imperials are also racist, they just hide it really well.

Also Lyn never said Tiber =/= Talos.

I never said it wasn't

well its not really the same empire anymore either so... yeah

There is a difference between a society that is racist and a faction within that society that actively encourages racist rhetoric in their attempt to usurp power. Otherwise you may as well be saying that the Commona Tong is on the same level as other Dunmer groups in Morrowind.

How do the Stormcloaks actively encourage racist rhetoric? By talking about "the elves"? There actually are elves dragging people out of their homes and trying to assert their dominance.

No, I think it's worse when you pretend to be benevolent and paternal in order to assert your dominance. Cyrodiil is looking out for itself alone at this point, while still pretending that it cares about the provinces. Skyrim doesn't have to wait around to become the next Hammerfell- a bargaining chip used to buy the throne of an ineffectual emperor. Although in reality that's the situation already in TESV.

Hello there again. Thanks for your reply.


I think you were bored and decided to spur a little strife by naming a topic in the most controversial way, followed by what I would describe as a bias presentation of the facts. Not a cardinal sin. I have one question, do you think TES VI will somehow follow up on Skyrim's civil war finale and if so which side do you think Beth will appoint as the winner?

Ah, you have a source for Ulfric actively encouraging racist rhetoric then, I assume?

Nords are loyal to Skyrim, not a weak and dying empire attempting to smother them as a means of helping itself back onto its feet.

Hi there slyme! Good t see you.


If you really want to go down that road then let me say to you an Empire is an inherently bad form of government, based off on oppression and suppression of national sovereignty. In this case, we have a rather incompetent one which doesn't even afford Nords most of the benefits oppressive regimes do but that for all other given purposes behaves as if it did. We do not know if Ulfric's regime is any good. What we know is the imperial one is plain awful.

The Stormcloaks do. Ulfric tacitly condones this behavior by refusing to call it out in any meaningful sense.

Ulfric's regime is exactly the same one they had before. He displaced the king so he could sit on the throne. Unless Ulfric is proposing free democratic elections, there is no difference in the way these matters will be handled.

On the other hand, an empire comprised of multiple distinct groups and cultures necessarily must consider the opinions of all their members. One can expect greater fairness from an organization such as this than from one that represents only a single, homogeneous people.

You're pretty much on the money on that thought, Press Z
As for your question, if the previous games are anything to go by, then they will probably reference it through books, passing-by dialogue, or simple references in the form of events or landmarks (assuming, that is, that the next game is after Skyrim and not during / before). As for who wins....I'm not sure, really.

It is completely pivotal on which side the Dragonborn decides to help, IF he/she decides to help either side. That being said, the base Dragonborn (as in the guy in the background of this forum) is a Nord, so I can see them saying that Ulfric wins (I know, I know, Nords support the Empire as well, but I feel like them starting you off side-by-side of Ulfric is a pretty good indicator that's who THEY think the obvious choice is).

So let's say, as long as the next game comes after Skyrim in TES timeline (which I believe I'm correct in saying they all have so far, so it's likely), then I'd have to imagine they would reference the Civil War somehow, and I think that their winner of choice will be the Stormcloaks.

My question to YOU is, do you think that (if my prediction holds true) the Thalmor will then invade Skyrim?

And the empire doesn't call it out in solitude, or morrowind, or any other province we've been to.

But no, the only "Stormcloak" you're pointing to is Rolff, who isn't a part of the stormcloaks, and the guy in Falkreath who isn't in the stormcloaks anymore either.

Hi again. You have admirably illustrated the pitfalls of speculating about a fictional character's future actions. We have yet to witness Ulfric’s praxis. We just do not know what his regime will be, how it will manifest itself on a daily basis, how it will evolve, how it will deal with pressure from the Forsworn. What we have learned about is the imperial experience, gone so wrong their forts look like shacks and roads can hardly be called that. The fact there’s wild beasts and hordes of bandits roaming around freely 2 minutes away from major cities also doesn't speak highly of this experience. One other fact that is often neglected is that empires always impose taxes upon their subjects, so to fund their humungous central infrastructures and oppressive tools, not to mention the Emperor’s quirks. Skyrim is thus being deprived of some of the wealth it generates. As for your depiction of the Imperial government as one trying to conciliate conflicting interests for the sake of the common good, that just is not the record of imperial forms of government, which are top down hierarchical by nature and which will only conciliate to the extent that that serves their own circumstantial interests.

Interesting. I hadn't seen it through that lens. I'm affraid I'm about the most ignorant person when it comes to lore (SKyrim was my introduction to TES), but I will say this: If beth decides to feature the aforementioned invasion on TES VI under Ulfric's rule, they will work their way to making sure victory is not only possible but plausible. Would you agree?

Again, there is a difference between a racist society and a faction actively feeding off that racism to secure support. The empire may not be doing anything to help matters, but they aren't actively hurting them either. The stormcloaks actively encourage these racist elements in society by using the same sort of rhetoric. Stormcloaks are condoning and normalizing these sentiments in an attempt to take the nation for themselves.
I don't know who these people are. I'm talking about the whole "Skyrim for the Nords" business that is the Stormcloaks central platform.

Yes...I would doubt that any invasion by the Thalmor would actually end in their ruling Skyrim, after an entire game being devoted to Skyrim and part of it especially the war. There wouldn't be any instance of player interaction with this invasion, though - it would be merely in a book somewhere or people would talk about it (and I imagine we'd get a bit of a different look on the war as a whole as well, coming from someone outside of Skyrim - like how the war affected other areas of Tamriel, how other areas view the Nords of Skyrim, etc. - TES games are pretty darn good about being in-depth on their lore).

I understand the grievances of the Stormcloaks, but I despite Ulfric as an opportunistic manipulator. All he wants is power at any cost, he doesn't care that hes walking right into the Dominion's plotting and he doesn't care that this is making everyone a lot more vulnerable to them as well. Hes so short-term thinking it's pathetic.

Yes, I'm aware that one version of the story equates the individual Tiber Septim with the god Talos. Another version states that Talos is an amalgamation of Tiber and a couple other individuals with whom he was associated, or was thought to be associated, and all of whom become indistinguishable from each other over time. Either way, Tiber Septim was a man who was Emperor, Talos is the god that Tiber (or Tiber + others) became.

And either way it makes no difference. Worshipping Tiber/Talos and wanting to break away from the current Empire is not hypocritical. The current Empire has officially repudiated and abandoned Talos and the legacy of Tiber Septim. Breaking away from it in its current state is an act of loyalty to Talos the god, if it's an act of disloyalty to the memory of Tiber Septim the man then it's no worse than what the Empire itself has already done.


Sorry, no. The Dunmer were given that section of Windhelm when they fled Morrowind 150+ years ago. Ulfric had nothing to do with it. When Dunmer refugees began arriving the Jarls of Skyrim agreed to make room for them in their holds where they could live as a separate, self-governing people with little or no civil, political, or military obligations to the local or provincial rulers. Essentially the Grey Quarter is a separate nation existing inside Windhelm and was given to the Dunmer free and clear (and presumably the original occupants were either evicted or left voluntarily to make room for them). They did not pay for it, they were not forced to live there by Ulfric or anyone else, and they are solely responsible for it. AFAIK there is no information on what condition it was in when they arrived, but if it wasn't a slum when they got there then they have allowed it to become and remain one. If it was a slum then they've done nothing to change that. Most of them appear to be working, at least one owns and runs a store and another owns a farm outside the city. Civic improvements in the Grey Quarter are their own responsibility and if they've spent the past century putting their money towards other things then that's not the fault of Ulfric and the Nords of Windhelm.


He says and does nothing in the game to indicate this.

This is just... ridiculous. The Stormcloaks believe Nords should be able to rule Skyrim independent of imperial influence. If some people use that as justification for their own personal agendas, that's just the way the world works. The idea that the empire is some rainbow coalition promoting tolerance is the worst pro-imperial argument I see in these discussions. It's laughably ironic, and so simplistic as to be useless.

This. Whether he is right or wrong to think so, this.

First, lets not look at in-game representations of infrastructure and landscape and take that as indicative of anything approaching the lore-status of the Empire. In Oblivion, the vast majority of forts were owned and operated by the local banditry organization. If anything, the Empire has made great strides in the last two hundred years.

Next, you're simply describing how dictatorships work. It's absurd to point out all the problem with this sort of system, but claim this is only an attribute of the Empire. Ulfric's system will not change things in the least. He is also less beholden to the views of all his constituents, representing only a single ethnic group. The empire is comprised of all manner of races from all manner of backgrounds, necessarily resulting in a system that considers all views when making it's policy decisions.
What's interesting to me about your argument is that it completely ignored what I actually said.

It has? Name some.

Context, sir. Read what I said again.

With my Nord Character I only joined the Stormcloaks because I like Ulfric's voice.