An itemized rant against energy weapons : Fallout: New Vegas

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:33 pm

Energy weapons should inherently ignore some of the target's DT. No way around it, it needs to be done.

I'm working on a mod that does this. Got the base done, just needs some balancing. Got some numbers for me?

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:47 pm

Also, flamers svck, OP.

They don't do jack squat on armored opponents and armor pen becomes a real issue on some of the tougher enemies.

The only thing I've met that was especially difficult to kill with a flamer was Deathclaws. It seems like Radscorps, even the giant ones, have a special vulnerability to fire because they die very fast. Brotherhood Paladins? Kills them pretty effectively too (mmmm, SPAM in a can). So I guess we'll have to disagree here, because I find the Flamer to be an outstanding weapon. Though I tend to use the Incinerator instead wherever possible because it's far more fuel-efficient and offers a range advantage.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:52 pm

This X1000000000.

I maxed out E. Weapons and would never do it again. I'm rerolling my character. The ONLY weapon that is truly useful in E. Weapons is the Pulse gun, that little bugger's a beast. Everything else in E. Weapons has a bigger brother that's more of a badass in Guns.

Also, flamers svck, OP.

They don't do jack squat on armored opponents and armor pen becomes a real issue on some of the tougher enemies.

You ever tried using an Incinerator on a super mutant brute or giant radscorpion?
Works really well.
How you use it is:
1. Shoot some fireballs onto the enemy.
2. First one, to set it on fire.
3. Then two more to give additional fire and let it's "damage over time" stack.
4. Hide away and let the fire work it's magic.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:41 am

You ever tried using an Incinerator on a super mutant brute or giant radscorpion?
Works really well.
How you use it is:
1. Shoot some fireballs onto the enemy.
2. First one, to set it on fire.
3. Then two more to give additional fire and let it's "damage over time" stack.
4. Hide away and let the fire work it's magic.

This. Giant RadScorpions are very easy to kill with the Incinerator, and Flamethrower works great on them too.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:49 pm

4. Hide away and let the fire work it's magic.

Fire is like....-4HP/sec?
How long does it take to kill a Super Mutant.......

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:29 pm

Fire is like....-4HP/sec?
How long does it take to kill a Super Mutant.......

You pop out every once in a while to shoot him with an additional 2 or 3 fireballs.
And Incinerator works great against regular SM's or Brutes but at Master level it's not worth using since as you say, their health go down in snail-pace.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:15 pm

I also took both guns and energy weapons on my first playthrough. The problem I found is that they had too low a dmg, but a high dps. Which while great for unarmored stuff, meant that they svcked the second you were dealing with anything that had a DT>10. Looking through the geck you'll find that most energy weapons are underbalanced against firearms. In the end, I ended up abandoning all my energy weapons and stuck with the carbine, AMR and sniper rifle. Money wasn't exactly an issue, so I just bought all the ammo I needed.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:20 pm

Another problem with EW.....weight

Plasma Caster is 20lbs
Heavy incinerator is 15lbs
Flamer is again, 15 lbs
Incinerator is 12lbs

YCS is 8 lbs
Gauss, Q-35 and Mulitplas is slight better, 7lbs

The only reasonable one is Plasma Defender, 2lbs

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:19 am

As a guns purist (in-game and real world), thanks for the post.

I haven't really used E-weapons in FNV, and only played around with them in F3, so this summary is good value for someone like me.

I equip Veronica with the Multiplas, and limit her ammo supply. It's a bit slower than other types I think, which is what I was after, as she fires ranged weapons like machine guns - simply blazes away till the ammo is gone. I'll give her an accolade though, she really lays down the covering fire over a wide area, and only hits Rex and me occasionally, sometimes.....

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:45 pm

I'm working on a mod that does this. Got the base done, just needs some balancing. Got some numbers for me?

I'd say somewhere around 10-15 DT negation. AP ammo does -15 @ .9 damage. Energy weapons already do less damage so it should probably work out. Maybe raise or lower the number a tad if it is too weak or too strong.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:52 pm

I have to admit, I'm kinda glad they "apparantly" nerfed EWs, it forced me to use conventional weapons, now I don't look back, I've had more fun with the cowboy repeater and ratslayer than any energy weapon, heck I even found the tesla prototype and sold it straight to the gunrunners.

Using the ratslayer, cowboy repeater and good positioning I took out all the deathclaws in sloan, the only other weapon that tops those for me is the Gobi, they can keep their energy weapons, conventional weapons are much more fun in my humble opinion.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:33 pm

I have to admit, I'm kinda glad they "apparantly" nerfed EWs, it forced me to use conventional weapons, now I don't look back, I've had more fun with the cowboy repeater and ratslayer than any energy weapon, heck I even found the tesla prototype and sold it straight to the gunrunners.

Using the ratslayer, cowboy repeater and good positioning I took out all the deathclaws in sloan, the only other weapon that tops those for me is the Gobi, they can keep their energy weapons, conventional weapons are much more fun in my humble opinion.

Well that's just plain lovely for you to enjoy Guns so much.
Ever thought about us who have loved Energy Weapons for 4 games feel when this one came around?

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:23 pm

Well that's just plain lovely for you to enjoy Guns so much.
Ever thought about us who have loved Energy Weapons for 4 games feel when this one came around?

Actually I was an energy weapons fan in fallout 3, the gauss being my favorite with the unique plasma rifle coming second, so I'm not dissing EW users, I just think conventional weapons fit NV better.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:35 pm

So i got This Machine. How can a 300 year old rifle (in the game's year) be more powerful than a prototype plasma and laser rifle. :blink:

Answer: the same way a cherry bomb powered IED can be more powerful than a mini-nuke.

Looking forward to the overhaul mods... :rolleyes:

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:43 am

The only minor advantage that say energy weapons have is slightly higher critical chance modifier and a few extra perks to take it even further, but really to match things up either the critical mod has to go further or energy weapons need a flat bonus to ignore DT, like say 4 or 5 would be enough. Right now the only way to match up with guns would be to exploit the infinite energy ammo glitch at hidden valley.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:40 am

Actually I was an energy weapons fan in fallout 3, the gauss being my favorite with the unique plasma rifle coming second, so I'm not dissing EW users, I just think conventional weapons fit NV better.

Ah, I misunderstood.
But truth be told the games have always been more in favor of (small) Guns than the other classes.
It's just really sad that they tried to make Energy Weapons an equal and failed so miserably.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:01 am

You ever tried using an Incinerator on a super mutant brute or giant radscorpion?
Works really well.
How you use it is:
1. Shoot some fireballs onto the enemy.
2. First one, to set it on fire.
3. Then two more to give additional fire and let it's "damage over time" stack.
4. Hide away and let the fire work it's magic.

Hell yeah,I absolutely LOVE the incenertator. Screw the flamer. The DoT rocks because you can shoot run and still do damage while kiting, AND it cripples like no other weapon I've seen.They should call it the crippler. Or Chris Benoit.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:58 pm

No one's mentioned the fact that most energy weapons look stupid. You've gotta look sixy in the Wasteland and a Cowboy Repeater or .44 Magnum on your hip is way sixier than a shoebox with a trigger on it.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:27 am

No one's mentioned the fact that most energy weapons look stupid. You've gotta look sixy in the Wasteland and a Cowboy Repeater or .44 Magnum on your hip is way sixier than a shoebox with a trigger on it.

I actually like the energy weapons "silly" look.
Wish ghouls and super mutants had it like in the old games too.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:00 am

At Least Energy weapons didn't get nerfed as bad as the Fat Man did.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:32 am

OP pretty good summary, but Laser Rifle with a scope (and other 2 mods) is excellent outdoors at mid to long range using VATS; RCW does NOT have the accuracy at longer than close range (20 feet max).

Scoped L.R. isn't as good as Sniper Rifle, but a reasonably good E.W. substitute, better than Varmit rifle

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:56 pm

OP pretty good summary, but Laser Rifle with a scope (and other 2 mods) is excellent outdoors at mid to long range using VATS; RCW does NOT have the accuracy at longer than close range (20 feet max).

I could hit Cazadors from 70 meters away very accurately with the RCW+.
But I didn't use VATS and actually used it's horrible iron sight.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:05 pm

It is just wrong that Laser Rifle, with value of 800, is in competition with Varmint Rifle, with a value of like 30(?).

I have no problem with using Laser RCW's iron sight as well.....just need to farm enough Fiends to feed the dam thing.......

Laser Rifle with dual beam actually does 2 crit instead of one; not making it a come back, but does meant a little something against opponents who's little bit tougher....

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:54 pm

Did we play the same game?

Virtually the same, although as a mod I get a DLC that makes Mr. House call the other groups "solids."

(I kid)

Maybe Energy Weapons are broken, maybe I just wasn't finding very good Guns, but I know that plasma weapons seemed far more effective later in the game. Ammo was admittedly less of an issue for me since I had scads stocked up from 12-14 levels of mostly using Guns.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:17 am

Ah, I misunderstood.
But truth be told the games have always been more in favor of (small) Guns than the other classes.
It's just really sad that they tried to make Energy Weapons an equal and failed so miserably.

This. I usually use Guns anyways, but every now and then I like to bust out an Energy Weapon. Its just not worth it anymore in New Vegas when I can do the same thing quicker, cheaper, and with less damage to the weapon I am using.