Previous thread can be found http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1143576-level-caps-and-endings-oh-my/.

Carry on the discussion here.

Why are there caps? Here:

1. No god character: IF there was not a cap, then you would become a god and be able to One hit kill everything.

2. Balance

3. SO that the devs dont have to make bullet sponge enemies.

1) Who cares? Well you do just for your own personal reasons.
2) Game would still be balanced as it takes a while to get to the higher levels.
3) Not everything is one shot kill.

But then there would still be some sort of cap

"Who cares" is a horrible argument. Balance is an issue, the game is proportionatly balanced to level 30, what you are asking for is level-scaled enemies, which Oblivion showed to be ridiculous.

Solution:

• Raise the top level cap to 50. Have each XP Level become exponentially further & further apart. Level 2 - 500 XP. Level 3 - 1500 XP - Level 4 - 3000 XP, etc.

• Reduce the number of Skill Points you get per level in half.

• Finally, game automatically creates a 'Sacred Savefile' when you hit the point of no return. This is an undeletable file unless you click past a series of text boxes asking you:

"You sure you want to remove this file?
Really really sure?
Positive?
Ok.
Really?

Once the game is completed, it takes you to this Sacred Save point in the game, but eliminates anything & everything to do with the main quest. All relevant main quest characters simply disappear and you find yourself wherever you were when this notice popped up - free to stomp Giant Mantis' at Level 50 ad nauseum.

Profit.

The main argument here was that the level cap is too low (which is absurd because it's the same as it was with the Broken Steel DLC) and that the game ends (which almost every game does).

Not much room to argue there.

No offense Inna, but that sounds like a REALLY bad idea.

I still think the XP gained should be lowered by a large amount.

The second character I made in F3 has 10's and 100's across the board. Even the damage sponge enemies (Reaver, Overlord, Albino Scorp) are a complete joke. Combine that with Chinese Stealth Armor/nuka nade/bottle cap mines/perforator and you are basically playing the game with godmode on.

Why anyone would want a god character to play through a game is beyond me. Where's the fun? ...I guess it all boils down to personal preference.

edit:: By the way, I stopped playing my godmode character in F3 cause it got boring REAL quick..

None taken. Which part don't you like? I tried to (quickly) address all of the main issues:

I hit the level cap too early in the game!
No problem. We'll raise the cap and spread the levels out so it is more difficult to hit the cap unless you are really really scrounging for every XP point.

But Inna, wouldn't that make a god character?
Why yes, you're right! We'll have to reduce the number of points received per level so that people don't see 100's across the board.

I want to keep playing after the end!
Poof! Keep playing. Now there is no Main Quest hanging over your head (???) and anyone who might have reminded you of its presence is gone - with little coding required.

Similarly, FO3 didn't live up to the expectations of a lot of other fans of the Fallout series. There are also quite a few fans of FO3 that actually see NV as an improvement. Unfortunately we don't have any numbers that show the number that like NV vs. the number that were disappointed in it.

In what way(s) did NV fail to meet your expectations? If you don't think it's stererotypically post-apoc enough you may continue to be disappointed with future games. Bethesda has stated that they want to keep moving the time-line forward. Obsidian actually wanted to set NV further in the past, but Bethesda didn't want them to.


The difference is that the choices you make with the major factions in NV culminate in the game ending, so the ending slides are the only feedback you're going to get barring the addition of a lot of extra content in the game to reflect your decisions as well as the ability to continue playing after the ending. In Oblivion the guild quests were side-questlines with plenty of gameplay moving forward afterward. TES is presented more as a "here's another world for you to establish a life in" sort of game while Fallout is more of a "here's this story" sort of game. I would expect being the head of a guild to lead somewhere in a TES game, especially since it's part of your character's established place in the game world rather than part of the main questline. That's just my perspective on it.

1. At level 30, I am already pretty much one-hit-killing everything
2. At level 30, I'm way more powerful than most things out there
3. I don't really have anything to say to that.

I see it this way: at level 30, we're already kicking ass all over the place. What's the difference between level 30 and level 50?

But I'm just playing Devil's Advocate. I can deal with the level 30 cap. It would be nice to have a few more levels to accommodate the rest of the XP I didn't get from a handful of quests -- but I can deal with it.

My big problem with this is... how the hell are people hitting the cap so damned soon? It took me FOREVER. And the only reason I have 100s in several skills is because I diligently hunted Skill Books and had the Educated Perk taken at level 4.

At the risk of derailing this thread, it will (eventually) be pretty easy to restore the post-apoc feeling no matter how far into the future the story progresses. Simply have the next Master/Enclave-esque plot succeed and be canon - effectively wiping out a high percentage of the residents again. Back to survival of the fittest feeling pretty quickly.

Game is too easy and no one needs more levels. I play the game on very hard and use the slow leveling mod from Nexus and it's still way too easy.

I think part of the 'percieved' problem is that for some there is a Level Cap which thus Limits their happy and carefree levelling spree. Personally I'm not bothered by by the level cap.

my solution: 2 extra levels to gain after 30, both of which require insane amounts of XP. and after you obtain the second of course you gain one more perk. the end.

I say we kill commies.
For every 37 commies killed the level cap gets raised by .025

1) Play the game on the PC.
2) Mod the game to your tastes.
3) Raspberry those who think their own game preferences and ideas of game balance are categorically superior to your own.
4) Enjoy your game.

Personally, I'd rather have some sort of respec option than a leveling cap. One can easily max out everything one actually needs in the game once you know whats important and what isn't. Feeling like you have to start over because you wasted precious skill points in skills that turn out to be less than useful svcks.

That could work but I do not see that happening.

That would make me thoroughly disgusted with Fallout. Fallout as it stands is about a seemingly Utopic America devastated by Atomic Fire and mankinds ruggedness to survive. The Post Apocalypse has already come around. Now it is about rebuild. I think Fallout should follow the simple but important chain of 'Survive-thrive- and revive'.

Maybe the people who found FO3 boring once they got to Level 30 god mode?



Agree

How about if we raise the level cap to Level 40 but we replace every Deathclaw with Legendary Deathclaws, Super Mutant Masters get replaced by Super Mutant Overlords, Rad Scorpions get replaced by Albino Radscorpions and lastly we increase the encounter rate of all these enemies when you hit Level 30. Example when your Level 31 your traveling south from GoodSprings to Primm halfway down you may face 2 Overlords, and or possibly a Legendary Deathclaw. We could also add in a couple perks nothing gamebreaking. Maybe a perk at Level 32 that automaticly gives you Power Armor Training.

Edited- I was half right they just raised the level cap :flamethrower: :flamethrower:

Try Arcanum, or if you prefer more first person type of approach, try Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines. If you appreciate RPGs as RPGs, you'll likely be right at home with these. Neither was a blockbuster, but both were (despite their individual inefficiencies) highly more enjoyable games than most on the current market.

On topic. I don't know what would be the best way to solve the "OMG the game ends after it ends! Who would've thunk it! What an unthinkable travesty!" but I think that to open up the game after the ending with a popup telling that "The game and it's story are now over. Some dialogs, quests and items no longer operate as they did during the story - and the world remains like you left it after beginning the final quest. Would you still like to continue playing? Y/N?" would do the trick well enough without having to tailor (read simplify and cut back) the main story or create massive amounts of extra content to make the world reflect all the players little quirks. If that doesn't satisfy, then so be it. I don't see why anymore recources should be put in creating something that only a fraction of customers will experience, and which all is completely outside of the point of the game - the core game is the one everyone experiences so that should be set to do its job the best way possible, what comes after that only some will (and if they so wish, let them run in the world). However, the popup asking the player is important (imo) to the feel of the ending.

The only thing I see the levelcap need doing is slow it down quite a bit with and at the same time giving the skills themselfs an enema. If low skill actually was and acted just like it says, even the difficultysettings wouldn't necesserely need to be notched up a couple of steps and the leveling would feel much more interesting.

Set the level cap to 1000. Someone will hit it and whine on the forums. Yes, it's a cynical statement but one I feel is true.

You say that, but it's never been an average joe simulator either, as evinced by my ability to run around shooting things in the eyes from two miles away whilst wearing magic, energy-absorbing robes. Any rpg is invariably about growing from a seven-stone weakling to being the most capable man in the land, it's just a question of if and when the game halts that growth. Make godhood achievable for those who want it, but make it hard, grindy work that is unnescessary anyway should you just want to "beat" the game. The powergamers should be able to have their fun without it cramping the style of us normals.