Mage has the highest damage potential

Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:32 pm

More like mage has the highest chance to exploit in-game mechanics.
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lauraa
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:44 am

Too much work IMHO. While you're picking all of your potions... I would've already killed the target O_o

At least some people got it. Just for fun, not practical, likely very bugged and not working as intended in any way, and even a snowflake dropping on the Mage will obliterate him. But in terms of killing power, casting Blizzard tends to anger everyone nearby causing them to run into the Blizzard. So while the Thief can do single target killing most efficiently the Mage can clear Keeps most efficiently. Besides, even without adding the poisons into the mix you can get 29,162 damage AOE. That's JUST drinking 3 potions and lasting for 30 seconds.
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..xX Vin Xx..
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:41 pm

imagine if people put this kind of effort into solving the worlds problems...

Don't wish for things...you might get them. This exact purpose is what the atom bomb was made for...not quite what you hoped for was it? It really depends on who is doing the solving.
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CArlos BArrera
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:48 pm

I would do that kind of stuff in a MMORPG for competition purpose .. But on a single player game? NPC won't recognize that you can 1 shot them or not.
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katsomaya Sanchez
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:51 pm

People are forgetting; this potion setup works for fortify one / two handed ; and marksman potions as well.

In the end the mage still loses. :flamethrower:
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Joe Bonney
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:53 pm

[*]Falmar Helmet: Potions are 29% more powerful
[*]Circlet: Potions are 29% more powerful

Thanks for the tip... i didn't know you can wear them together :wink_smile:
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Barbequtie
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:36 pm

imagine if people put this kind of effort into solving the worlds problems...

Noam Chomsky said it best.
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Justin Hankins
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:50 am

And by the time you're done chugging potions and debuffing the NPC, the guy with the battle axe has already cleared the dungeon.
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Katey Meyer
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:13 pm

Can't you just use the restoration bug to do infinite damage with almost anything?
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Dawn Porter
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:23 pm

I play a Destruction/Conjuror Mage and my damage although pretty impressive pales beside my two Dremora Lords. I suppose I could cast my permanent one, just finished dominating him, and put three into a situation.

Ever seen how OP those fools are? Three is ridiculous.
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Syaza Ramali
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:48 pm

So far the responses are a bit disheartening. The OP has demonstrated that the Mage can, under certain conditions, output the highest damage. But the OP receives one liners about back stab and hit the I win button :shakehead:

While I wouldn't personally use poisons as a Mage I do use fortify potions. I see no difference here to a mêlée build using alchemy smithing and enchanting to boost their output. So if it's OK for mêlée types to utilise all the available tools it should be OK for a Mage too.

good point
can't really say mages are underpowered compared to melee characters when one of them is only allowed to use one skill
not a fair comparison
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Campbell
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:21 pm

Can't you just use the restoration bug to do infinite damage with almost anything?

Didn't know about that bug, just looked it up so good point! I guess one could argue that all things being equal, i.e. spending the same time using restoration bug to craft even more powerful gear, the point at which one stops the Mage will still do more in damage than the others, especially due to the stacking nature of the damage formula :P My infinity > your infinity XD
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Kelly John
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:00 pm

Didn't know about that bug, just looked it up so good point! I guess one could argue that all things being equal, i.e. spending the same time using restoration bug to craft even more powerful gear, the point at which one stops the Mage will still do more in damage than the others, especially due to the stacking nature of the damage formula :P My infinity > your infinity XD

This is where you start making comparisons in Big O notation; my O(n) to your (w)n^n :flamethrower:
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Claire
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:06 pm


... 29%...
... 29% ...
...Target is 110% weaker to frost damage for 30 seconds.... Target is 74% weaker to magic damage for 30 seconds.... Increase Heavy Armor skill by 74 points for 60 seconds. Target is 88% weaker to frost damage for 30 seconds....


[*]Potion of Regenerate Magicka (self weakness to Magicka): Magicka regenerates 184% faster for 300 seconds. Target is 59% weaker to magic for 30 seconds.
[*]Potion of Fortify Destruction: Destruction spells are 184% stronger for 60 seconds.

...

= 30 + (100 + (59 +100% = 118))% + (88 + (100 + 118)% = 279)% + 74% + 110% + 184% + 184%
= 30 + 218% + 279% + 74% + 110% + 184% + 184%
= 30 * 3.18 * 3.79 * 1.74 * 2.1 * 2.84 * 2.84
= 10656 per second AOE
= 106,560 damage after 10 seconds AOE

...

= 30 + (100 + (59 +100% = 118))% + (88 + (100 + 118)% = 279)% + 74% + (110 - 50 = 60)% + 184% + 184%
= 30 * 3.18 * 3.79 * 1.74 * 1.6 * 2.84 * 2.84
= 8118.8 per second
= 81,188 damage after 10 seconds


To think that spellmaking was taken out because IT was supposedly too "spreadsheety".. :o
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cutiecute
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:51 pm

If you need all this mathematical mumbo jumbo in order to get a mage to have some decent output without tinkering in Enchanting/Alchemy, it failed still in my eyes. Too much effort when my Argonian Battlemage can deliver that blow with one power attack.

Other than that, impressive read nonetheless.


This is why Fighters just go "ME ANGRY, ANGRY SMASH!!!!" and Mages are Intellectuals.
Simple really.
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Leanne Molloy
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:28 pm

This is why Fighters just go "ME ANGRY, ANGRY SMASH!!!!" and Mages are Intellectuals.
Simple really.

So what do you call a fighter that drinks a smithing potion after stacking potions like this ? :laugh:
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Lizzie
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:35 pm

This is why Fighters just go "ME ANGRY, ANGRY SMASH!!!!" and Mages are Intellectuals.
Simple really.

Yeaaaaaaaah. No, doesn't fly. I said "Battlemage". This involves actually 1/2 Mage style and 1/2 Fighter style. I fight smart, I use my spells to my advantage, either before or during battle. But still, it feels good to stick a battleaxe into someone's skull rather than relying on Destruction.

I just said his entire mathematical equation is all fun and probably valid, it's still way too much effort when Bethesda needs to redo their entire magic system. I rolled an Altmer mage personally and drowned him because how boring and nerfed the playstyle has become. Morrowind spell days are over indeed.
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Darian Ennels
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:40 pm

So what do you call a fighter that drinks a smithing potion after stacking potions like this ? :laugh:

An Alcoholic?
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Hilm Music
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:11 am

The fortify restoration bug (and maybe this one) are exploits that are so ridiculously hard and complex to do, they shouldn't be patched.
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Dina Boudreau
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:12 pm

Crap, I just realized I made a mistake in my little test. I actually had it on Master difficulty so you can go ahead and multiply the damage I got by 2 for the actual damage (due to Master -50% damage penalty). So something in my formula isn't correct and it did over 162,000 damage during the test... sigh... time to isolate things! T_T
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Laura Elizabeth
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:21 am

The fortify restoration bug (and maybe this one) are exploits that are so ridiculously hard and complex to do, they shouldn't be patched.

But if people start stacking enough potions to actually get close to the max value of a double floating point, they'll break their games from floating point overflow. :laugh:

I don't see why there needs to be anymore calculations though, if you're going to stack potions we all already know the theoretical limit for anything
be it magic or a sword.

If you can apply a fortify destruction potion; you can apply a fortify smithing + fortify one-handed potion + poison. it will always be n < n^2 + n; magic loses every time.

1.79 * 10^308 is your max; how long will it take for you to get there ?
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Michelle Smith
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:28 am

After http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1307527-fire-stormblizzard-does-more-damage-than-stated/page__st__20 I realized that what is very likely a bug in the game along with the behavior of Blizzard makes it achieve by far the highest damage potential. I have now officially tested this and the results are below in the results section. I put the summary first in case you didn't want to read through the rest :P

Summary
Mage does the most damage out of anyone, achieving 81,117 damage even when the target has 50% Frost resist, and requires two attacks to apply the poisons, drinking of two potions in specific order and then casting Blizzard. More work than other characters to achieve that damage but it is incredibly high. If anyone wants me to try something else let me know. I left out a lot of details but enough is here if anyone else wants to try it and verify it.

Apparatus
  • Apprentice stone
  • Weakness to Frost poison: Ice Wraith Teeth + Fire Salt
  • Weakness to Magic poison: Salt Pile + Scaly Pholiota
  • Potion of Fortify Heavy Armor (self weakness to Frost): Ice Wraith Teeth + White Cap
  • Potion of Regenerate Magicka (self weakness to Magic): Dwarven Oil + Jazbay Graqes
  • Potion of Fortify Destruction: Glowing Mushroom + Nightshade
  • A weapon to apply the poisons (Bow works)
NOTE: For the potions to apply weakness to self you must NOT take the final Alchemy perk which would remove harmful effects. In this case you want them!

Gear to craft potions:
  • Falmar Helmet: Potions are 29% more powerful
  • Circlet: Potions are 29% more powerful
  • Ring: Potions are 29% more powerful
  • Amulet: Potions are 29% more powerful
  • Gloves: Potions are 29% more powerful

With the above, you create the following potions:
  • Weakness to Frost poison: Target is 110% weaker to frost damage for 30 seconds.
  • Weakness to Magic poison: Target is 74% weaker to magic damage for 30 seconds.
  • Potion of Fortify Heavy Armor (self weakness to Frost): Increase Heavy Armor skill by 74 points for 60 seconds. Target is 88% weaker to frost damage for 30 seconds.
  • Potion of Regenerate Magicka (self weakness to Magicka): Magicka regenerates 184% faster for 300 seconds. Target is 59% weaker to magic for 30 seconds.
  • Potion of Fortify Destruction: Destruction spells are 184% stronger for 60 seconds.

Participants
Whiterun Guard at the entrance to Whiterun with 100,000 health. Use console command "setav health 100000" to achieve this.

Formula
Blizzard (with +50% perk)
+ Apprentice stone
+ Reduce Magic resist (potion to self, multiplied by Apprentice stone weakness)
+ Reduce Frost resist (self, multiplied by weakness to magicka for even larger boost)
+ (Weakness to Magic poison (on enemy) - Enemy Magic resist)
+ (Weakness to Frost poison (on enemy, NOT multiplied by reduce magicka resist) - Enemy Frost resist)
+ Fortify Destruction
+ Fortify Destruction (due to bug or intended?)
= 30 + (100 + (59 +100% = 118))% + (88 + (100 + 118)% = 279)% + 74% + 110% + 184% + 184%
= 30 + 218% + 279% + 74% + 110% + 184% + 184%
= 30 * 3.18 * 3.79 * 1.74 * 2.1 * 2.84 * 2.84
= 10656 per second AOE
= 106,560 damage after 10 seconds AOE

Procedure
  • Activate Apprentice stone on self
  • Find target, increase their health via "setav health 100000"
  • Hit target with magic weakness poison
  • Hit target with frost weakness poison
  • Drink reduce Magic resist potion, exit inventory screen to let potion apply
  • Drink reduce Frost resist potion, exit inventory screen to apply
  • Cast Blizzard

NOTE: Order of 3. and 4. can vary as they do not stack in the same way as applying to self. However, applying Magic weakness to self before Frost weakness to self is necessary as the Magic weakness further boosts the Frost weakness. i.e. 88% Frost weakness to self becomes 279% Frost weakness to self if you have Apprentice stone (100%) and Magic weakness to self (59%... which then becomes 118% due to Apprentice stone). Thus Frost weakness to self 88% + 218% = 279% which you can verify in game UI.

Results
After performing the above procedure on the Whiterun guard I brought his health from 100,000 to 19,883.6. At first this may seem wrong as you were expecting over 100,000 damage given the above formula, however if we factor in 50% Frost resist due to Nord then the formula becomes:
= 30 + (100 + (59 +100% = 118))% + (88 + (100 + 118)% = 279)% + 74% + (110 - 50 = 60)% + 184% + 184%
= 30 * 3.18 * 3.79 * 1.74 * 1.6 * 2.84 * 2.84
= 8118.8 per second
= 81,188 damage after 10 seconds

My test was predicting a result of around 81,188 damage but the real test showed 81,117 damage. I am not sure what could be the reason but it is so close that there could just be some margin of error in that the spell runs for slightly less than intended.

Talk about a waste of time.
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Matt Bee
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:40 am

Could just use a one handed melee potion and even add poison to the blade which you probably enchanted already.
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Stacy Hope
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:28 pm

But if people start stacking enough potions to actually get close to the max value of a double floating point, they'll break their games from floating point overflow. :laugh:

I don't see why there needs to be anymore calculations though, if you're going to stack potions we all already know the theoretical limit for anything
be it magic or a sword.

If you can apply a fortify destruction potion; you can apply a fortify smithing + fortify one-handed potion + poison. it will always be n < n^2 + n; magic loses every time.

1.79 * 10^308 is your max; how long will it take for you to get there ?

I'm not talking about general magic though. Just Blizzard, and from what I am seeing Blizzard is getting Fortify Destruction twice. Not only that, but the potions to enhance Blizzard (via self Frost/Magic weakness) are stacking in such a way that the damage function greatly outpaces any n^2 function.

x = Magic resist
y = Frost resist
z = Fortify destruction

Damage increase = (2x + 2) * ((2x + 2) * y) * z * z
= n^5

Something like that.
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Cayal
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:20 pm

I'm not talking about general magic though. Just Blizzard, and from what I am seeing Blizzard is getting Fortify Destruction twice. Not only that, but the potions to enhance Blizzard (via self Frost/Magic weakness) are stacking in such a way that the damage function greatly outpaces any n^2 function.

x = Magic resist
y = Frost resist
z = Fortify destruction

Damage increase = (2x + 2) * ((2x + 2) * y) * z * z
= n^5

Something like that.

Are you also saying magic weakness gets applied multiplicatively twice too ? :laugh:
Cause what you're writing is you're getting fortify destruction multiplicatively twice, rather than just twice. 2x or x * x ?
And how much damage are you taking yourself from casting blizzard ?

Though, since your numbers are over the course of 10 seconds, how does that actually compare to 16k+ backstabs per second ?
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Claudz
 
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