I would have an better opinion about your question if I played the Fable series. I played the first one and was upset of Fable's fables......

Completely agree! TES and Fallout are completely different game.



What he means is that they are completely different game. You don't just copy mechanics from another game to 'replace' your game mechanic for no reason. Like asking Civ developers to change to RTS, Earth Empire to TBS.

People always forgetting the flaws of the system, you jumped hundreds time around on a staircase or casted useless spells just to increase your skills.

Or you increase too much social skill and level up too much and then you are screwed in Oblivion.

I did that with my Gandhi character (I beat the game in 2 hours and 40 minutes while not attacking anyone.) One of my biggest problems is having to start over on an character because of exp deficiency. Not the multiple endings. Even from Fallout and Fallout 2 there was a difference in the leveling system. Fallout 2 is where they introduced perks every third level. *cough* It's just getting repetitive and shorter by the series dude. But there should be a difference in storyline and location at least. So the rememberable thing to say about the Fallout franchise is: War...war never changes and neither does Fallout??

Yea, like in life if you want more money, you have to do more work or put more effort, to get promoted or "level up" in your line of duty. I'm sure you didn't get out of grade school and landed that bad mofo college degree job asap buddy. You had or have to put devotion to yourself, and prove you're worth getting that satisfaction. And jumping hundreds of time on an staircase wasn't the only want to boost that skill. Jump while you're questing. You move faster by jumping anyways, lol. but yea, you're right about useless spells though, I'm guilty of that...

Maybe you missed the part where I basically say "I agree, keep the leveling system just make it longer." I swear I said that s**t like five times. That doesn't mean they can't change the setting of the game. Is no one interested about the other 90% of the world in post apocalyptica??

And you know there's an game that's older than Fallout and is way more successful in their series and they've changed their leveling system all the f'ing time. Final Fantasy dude. What, Bethesda and Obsidian can't be creative?? Don't give them an crutch, they get paid enough to be more artistic with their games.

Oblivion "learn-by-doing" skill leveling in Fallout?

Oh, hell no!

Fair enough, hrm how to put it in a different context. Ok let us say they decided to use the following system for skills/levelling.

You only level up and thus gain the opportunity to choose one of three skills at set points in the main quest. Aka if you reach point 1 in the main quest line you can choose between getting skill A, B or C, at point 2 you can choose between skill C, D or E, at point 3 you can choose one of the two skills you took to improve a bit, at point 4 you can choose between skill F, G or H, at point 5 you can improve one of the skills you picked, at point 6 you can choose between skills i, J or K etc.
Now they could make it more involved by changing the skill sets after each choice to reflect the choices you have made previously so if you choose A for the first skill then the C, D and E choice would be different than if you had chosen either B or C.
They could also let you learn perklet/skills which can't be improved through doing side quests and again depending on the complexity of the system these could change depending on the choices you make through the main questline skills.

While I loved Elder Scrolls, I did not love spamming light spells to work up divination etc. It also had an issue with balancing major skills vs minors, by reversing your picks and making all your most useful skills minor ones you could become a master of everything that ultimately took all the fun out of it. I much prefer the explorers version of skill ups, by hunting down those skill books!

Wholeheartedly agreed.

If anything the Fallout series should move farther away from TES principles and quirks, not closer to it.

Like I said, expand the current "challenge" system, so you get a small bonus once you have done enough of something. But NOT skill point.

ur right.....its oblivion without magic, and with guns, cause thats what FO3 was also, dispute that

Oh dear GOD NO. That system of levelling is the main reason I don't like Oblivion or Morrowind. Is it more realistic? Sure. But it's boring as hell and leads to some incredibly odd quirks in gameplay: Want to increase Athletics? Then jump around lot. This means you are constantly hopping EVERYWHERE YOU GO as often as you can. Want to increase swimming? Get ready to spend a horrendously boring amount of time just swimming up and down a river doing nothing other than that. Want to increase your skill with a particular armor? You have to ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE HIT - A LOT, DON'T FIGHT BACK OTHERWISE YOU MISS YOUR CHANCE TO INCREASE YOUR ARMOR SKILL!

Realism doesn't always equate to fun. This is why I'm so staunchly in love with Fallout's traditional "Level up and distribute your skill points HOWEVER YOU FREAKING WANT." I don't care if it doesn't make any sense that I shot up a bunch of raiders for experience, then I suddenly knew how to pick locks better. I like it that way. :fallout:

But FNV isn't Oblivion with guns. There are so many degrees of separation between them, that the only recognizable elements are the crappy gamebryo engine, first-person, quick-travel and the way status screens list items.

Yeah... thing is.. .for me... Final Fantasy isn't an RPG. It's simply action/adventure.. sometimes with RT combat, sometimes TB combat.
You're given the char, given everything they do. About the only customization is maybe put in a different name.. and change your armor/weapon/odd-skill.

It's become a nice movie with some action interludes.

An RPG, to me at least, is one where you control ALL/MOST of the char from start to end. While I enjoyed the FF series for a while. I think it was around 5 or 7 where I just got bored of grinding to do anything. Because if you went STRAIGHT through, you either had to be really lucky.. or you had no chance. Hell, Persona 3 was FAR more an rpg than FF... While you may start at a 'set' level every time, EVERY tiny decision makes a difference.. (work on which stat, hang out with which friend, etc)

And honestly, never really saw much 'change' in FF's leveling system. You hit random xp-mark, you level. It does 99% of the level-up changes for you, if not 100% of them

Not really, I just rapid tapped the jump button everywhere I went, or beat Shadowmere to death with the langorwine blade and ended up finding that the only way to truely have a usable skill was to exploit the hell out of it. Where as in Fo, I can put my points to what I care about. it isnt as realistic, but I find it much more enjoyable.

I'd like to see a system where "levels" don't even exist. You're simply the sum of your skills as a character. Allow you to distribute XP as you get it (or you could let it build up). As a way to better craft a character your skills could be tied to your SPECIAL (or some similar system) in a way that when XP is applied to a skill that skill raises more if you have a higher number in its corresponding SPECIAL. In other words keep the SPECIAL as 1-10 but let that be a percentage. If sneak is tied to Agility and you have 6 in agility then only 60% of the XP you apply to that skill is counted. This would stop you from being a master of everything at high levels and really decide how you want your character to be from the beginning. As it is Tagging skills is fairly meaningless. You can still get 100 in non tagged skills with ease.

It's not "Oblivion with/without anything," considering both games existed side-by-side, developed by completely different companies, for years. Which is why trying to interchange the coincidentally similar leveling/skill systems is such an utterly asinine idea.

Oh god, if there are games that can justify itself using old EXP leveling system it would be multi-solution RPG like Fallout.

It is just lame to have a story ended "and so the courier hack a thousand computer and keep Vegas independent...."

Intelligence at level 1: 10.5 per level, total of 315 or 382 max
Intelligence at level 5 : 12.5 per level, total of 375 or 442 max
Intelligence at level 10: 15 per level, total of 450 or 517 max
(Educated perk is 2 per level after level 4 for most points so from 5-30 is 52 extra points)
(and TAG perk is 15 to an skill)
With 13 skills and the highest you can have an skill start off (with the three perks) is 40 but that also damages other skills if decide to have high Intelligence and also take away form another S.P.E.C.A.I.L. and add to another.

It takes 66,700 exp to get to level 30
How much play time does it take to get to level 30?? Not a lot really. 25-30 hours if you really worked at it. (30 minutes if you use the Helios Xp glitch <= just extra info not taken to serious consideration)

So summing it all up 13 set of skills, 517 max points of distribution (If you squeezed for maximum points) and 66,700 of exp. This is your Fallout character, if that's enough for you okay fine. I like the old days when RPG was about your characters and incredible story. It feels like this set of series is an short form of RPG, not even half, a quarter maybe. You couldn't leave from beginning point A and get to the end (or one of the endings) in 2 hours. This is a horrible people, it truly is.

How is this related to "dynamic" skill leveling in anyways?

I loved oblivion and all but I cannot tell you how many hours I wasted trying to make my character how I wanted it.*casts fire weakness on self a billion times*. I do think some aspects of oblivion should have been carried over such as houses and house upgrades. Well you can upgrade your suite in the casino which is great and all but I want more! :nuke:

Which is why you're so obsessed with having all the numbers calculated out to 2 or 3 decimal places like a min/maxer? No really, tell us what all the number-crunching has to do with incredible story. The story isn't incredible and you're offering a mathematical proof of that? :rolleyes: