Nobody said "number crunching" had anything to do with an incredible story. You either have an poor comprehension reading level or you have selective reading. I said you shouldn't be able to beat a game in 2 hours and 40 minutes. That has allot to do with the story. Look, after all the Fallout games, what has changed (story wise...not allot in anything really except 1st person play.)?? You know Bethesda or Zenimax studios didn't come up with Fallout, we all know that. They came up with Doom (id), TES, Brink, Wet, Rage etc...No matter how you put it, Fallout: 3 and New Vegas is a knock off of TES now. I don't see a point in naming an RPG an great RPG if it only takes 25-30 hours to Max out what you can do. The story hasn't changed at all in the series. NCR was created at the end of Fallout, The Brotherhood is still the Brotherhood, Kahns are the toughest gang of raiders in the series, Fiends and Jackals in New Vegas are the same as just raiders except raiders in the game are of clans. There's not much depth to any of the factions you can join or do quest off of. They have a quick one two sentence on how they were started (allot we already knew if we'd played Fallout before) and two da three quests you can actually do from them. When you have limits to your character's ability of progression it's crap. Now if they did classes like "Ninja", "Sniper", "Necromancer", "Warrior" I could reason with, because you wouldn't have the option to be an gunslinger if you where a warrior or incredible strength to decapitate your enemies if you were a necromancer. If you wanted to be a awesome warrior in FNV, you have penalties because you need to be well rounded in other areas. Try being lvl 30 with 15 med skills or survival skills. You can't have all of weapon mods because you needed to have speech or barter skills. I want madness of leveling, madness of a story. I want to believe there's a reason this courier fought all the Mojave and supported or broke out Independence for New Vegas for a reason. Not just to find out why he/she was left for dead. No, Fallout: New Vegas has all the skills in front of you and puts an harness on you to prevent you from maxing out and a story line that never has never changed just like it's intro. Do not misunderstand, I love the Fallout series. Brian Fargo had an brilliant idea. I wish he had more to do with the story now and someone had a better idea with the leveling system.

No?



Aside from the two bold lines that aren't a load of numbers, this poster seems to think numbers are the be-all and end-all of why Fallout needs a leveling system imported from an entirely separate game series.

And that same poster mentions story exactly...once. Surrounded by math and numbers to support the argument, apparently.

if you're going to quote me, quote my whole segment. Don't just quote the last sentence that supports your input. Geeze your just like FOX News. lol

There it is... You just lost any sense of credibility in my book. Then again, the argument you're making doesn't make much sense in the first place. There's no logical reason to change the Fallout series' experience and leveling system. Changing the current 'level up and allocate points to the skills of your choosing system' to a dynamic leveling system is, as Alois Hammer put it so well, asinine at best.

Leave The Elder Scrolls series the way it is and do the same courtesy for the Fallout series. They are two completely different games, and they should stay that way.

As a big fan of Oblivion as well as F:NV, this is all very interesting to me.

It seems that one simple solution to the problem of leveling up too quickly in FNV would be to install one of the mods that reduces the rate of XP gain. It would not provide for complex leveling based on how many times you swim or pick a lock, for example, but it would allow you to pace the leveling.

I'm at almost 100 hrs and still at level 14 because I've been avoiding the main quest and mainly exploring new locations in the wastes. For those who want to level quickly, you can always complete quests more rapidly, which has a greater impact than the XP from defeating enemies.

yea because I live for your credibility!! How is there no logical reason to change the experience and leveling system?? Yea, making a game more interesting with original ideas and deeper with in depth characteristics is "asinine" or FOOLISH. I don't see how it's extremely stupid. If you just wanted to sound intelligent go talk to your mom, she isn't going to say you're stupid.

Okay you tell me when Bethesda bought the rights to Fallout, how is it different from TES. And I will tell you how they are the same.

It's not only how fast I can level, it's how much I can put into stats. The story topic is stuck in here now, but that's an different topic really, but it's in here non the less.

Ok first of all, Bootysweat... Your avatar creeps me out.

Second, my mother is not like most. She has no inhibition towards calling me stupid if I'm being stupid.

Third, copying and pasting the leveling system from The Elder Scrolls to the Fallout franchise (which is essentially what H45X78x proposed) is the opposite of original.

Fourth, changing the experience/leveling system of a game does nothing to make the game deeper. It just changes the way you become stronger. If you want to develop a stronger bond with your character, role-play with it. I understand that this might be a stretch considering that the game is a Role-Playing Game (note the sarcasm) but trust me, it works. H45X78x's argument is one that is advocating change in order for him(?) to have more of an emotional investment in the game, thereby creating a more involved experience. However, this argument has started as a proposal to have Fallout games adopt TES's experience system (to aid in immersion), to submitting cluttered and unwieldy figures to support it, to attacking others for their objections towards his idea (take for instance his(?) assertion that I'm stupid).

Fifth, TES games and Fallout games have different settings, different time periods, different protaganists and antagonists, different flora and fauna, different races, different weapons, different leveling systems, different origins... Seriously, want me to keep going? So far their similarities include the engine used, the company that owns them, and similar development methods. Maybe we should create a complete, itemized list to illustrate the point that they're two different things.

Oh gawd i remember doing that for oblivion. Though eventually I gave up stuck a rubber band on my controller when I went to sleep and left my toon "sneaking" into a wall the entire night. Did the same thing on my 2nd playthrough with my toon hacking away at the king with a sword the entire time.

LMAO, i did the same thing with my keyboard, I placed a bottle on the space bar or something to keep using a particular spell that I needed to improve my conjuration or restoration or whatever it was.

in the end, I gave up and estimated how much time I would have been willing to do that and increased the ability by the same amount of points using the console.

Fallout 4.

I agree, Oblivion has a much better leveling system, since you actually had to use the weapon to get good with it.

I've done that too. Which is exactly why I don't want that in the Fallout series. Having something like that in the game is just adding a tedious task to something that's supposed to be fun. If I want to do something tedious in my free time; I'll go to the gym, rebuild my computer, or pratice playing an instrument. At least then I'll be doing something productive instead of wasting my time with some mundane virtual task.

That was the point of me telling you to talk to your mom. She won't call you stupid even when you want to sound intelligent.

Are you saying I'm so sixy that you can't tell my gender from my picture or that you're trying to show that you're upset?? lmao

Your third segment is one of my arguments on how they "copied an already great story and pasted a little bit of Oblivion (or TES) into it."

Your fourth segment, "changing the experience/leveling system of a game does nothing to make the game deeper." So you mean to tell me Super Mario Bros. (or Super Mario RPG because I have sense you're going to have something to say about genre's) is just as deep as a story as to Fallout or Zelda or Pokemon or any of the Final Fantasy Series?? "If you want to develop a stronger bond with your character, role-play with it". LMAO So I should role play in my mind an role playing game to satisfy the definition of role playing?? I can't stop laughing but I have to take my son his doctor app. I have more to say to you mister...(mistress??) lol

I would prefer this type of leveling system too. Was actually just thinking about it yesterday. Hopefully they will do this for F4

It sounds like a good idea at first but in practice it is a horrible idea. Hopping around and casting some defense spell all the time was the reason why I eventually stopped playing Oblivion. I'm all for more realism as long as it isn't boring or tedious.

And if it goes too fast then we're going to have the same problem we had with FO3: "MOAR levels pl0x!"

I suppose I'll address these point by point again since that seems to be the pattern now.

First, I couldn't tell your gender from an avatar the size of a postage stamp nor did I want to spend much time trying to figure it out.

Second, me talking to my mom is completely irrelevant to the conversation, hence my response on the matter. Your insistence on inferring that I'm stupid is a pointless attack and has no bearing on the outcome of this discussion. However, the fact that you're continuing on that path just shows how little you have to bring to the table.

Third, your entire argument on how Bethesda/Obsidian 'copied an already great story and pasted a little bit of Oblivion (or TES) into it' is a matter of perspective. We can draw conclusions like that if you wish, but it's just a matter of how one views the game. Sure, you may be able to draw similarities between the two but that doesn't give any credence to the idea that it'd be a good enough reason to scrap a core part of Fallout and implement the unwieldy and tedious leveling system from TES to Fallout, nor does it make that idea original.

Fourth, the idea of a role-playing game is that the player puts himself/herself in the shoes of the player character. That in itself encourages immersion. I'm not sure why you brought Super Mario Bros., Zelda, and Pokemon into the argument however. They have even less similarity to Fallout than TES.

Fifth, I'm sorry you have to go. Being verbally attacked and presented with inane evidence to support changing the experience system in Fallout has been interesting. Call it profiling, but based on your method of trying to explain your point (You know; calling objectors stupid when you obviously have trouble forming a simple sentence), I never pegged you for a parent.

Sixth. Just to clarify, it's mister. The gender on my profile shows me as a male.

While I like the idea in theory...in practice you just end up bouncing around everywhere like a bunny...until you are clearing rooftops...
so no thanks.

That's what I do, sorta. :shrug:

The Morrowind/Oblivion skill system is my least favorite leveling system in any game I've ever played.

I generally like to min/max my character and that system makes it a chore. Not fun.

just did a quick look at the Exp numbers a level 30 in FO3 needs the same xp as like a level 14 in the old games. I say down with the TES stuff thats already in from FO3 (25 pt Benchmarks in skills and so forth, excessive boni(sp?) for the PC)should all be done away with and A FO2 Tactics system be put in it's place. (With some tweaking to shore up drawbacks in skill under utilization.

I miss the "special moves" you got with high unarmed skills targeting all parts with any weapon. The text box for descriptions and humor. Critical hits along with critical failures for both the player and NPC's.

You calling me or my opinion "asinine" (Extremely stupid, foolish) is what lead me to tell you to talk to your mother if you wanted to sound intelligent. (I don't think that meant you were stupid.) Not because you had an different opinion about my opinion. If I was deliberately calling you stupid because I couldn't handle someone else's or your opinion, doesn't mean I would react to my children that way. People are just people, my children are everything to me. Moving on, I really didn't mean "Down to the T" with the oblivion leveling system, as in have an jumping skill. Obviously the spell thing in TES is and probably was the worse thing they had as far as leveling up. I didn't say I wanted the courier throwing freeze balls and s**t, I want the learn as you play feel with the current Fallout skills. I want the "connection" so to speak by leveling my character in more different ways. The "idea" of a role-playing is what you said, but only as in Pen and Paper, Dungeons & Dragons (D&D) or Live action role-playing game (LARP) on an Role-playing video game (Which is what Fallout is) the "idea" is providing a visual representation of the world but emphasizing statistical character development over collaborative, interactive storytelling. I brought Mario Bros, Zelda and what not into the subject because you said "changing the experience/leveling system of a game does nothing to make the game deeper." If you couldn't grasp that term, than you honestly believe how you level your character in an rpg game has nothing to do with "immersion" or making "the game deeper"?? I don't go around calling people stupid though, I'm sure i said or i wanted to say "if you wanted to sound intelligent go talk to your mom. She won't call you stupid." Maybe I was in a hurry and typed it all f***ed up. Oh yea on more thing about the originality, I was saying about the story in being original, move from the USA and tell a story Germany, China, Japan, Thia, Middle Eastern, hell Africa would be good. They should expand the story more add more flavor, more complete clans, government, weapons, etc.... *sighs* feedback??

Look. I called the idea of copying the TES experience system over to Fallout asinine (lacking proper judgment/rationality). Your reaction was a knee-jerk insult which you've tried to disguise as unintentional. Originally, I made a joke of it but it's getting really old. You implied that I was stupid plain and simple (more clearly: Telling someone to talk to their mother if they don't want to be called stupid implies that someone thinks he/she is stupid), so don't try to rationalize your way out of it. By the way, to clarify, I never said or implied that you would ever react to your children in that manner, despite the rather childish way you've been treating me.

As for Fallout's current system, the problem I see with trying to merge TES's system with Fallout's system is that there's no room for the change. You would need to scrap the current system to implement a 'increase skills as you use them' arrangement since the current setup revolves around assigning points. As for role-playing, I do it in any role-playing game I play in order for me to have a more meaningful connection with what I'm doing. I can see how changing a game to require more time investment might aid you in this, but as for me personally I never felt it was all that essential to the game. I have no problem with Bethesda using that system for TES games but I'd rather that Bethesda/Obsidian keeps the current system for Fallout.

As for originality, I do agree that each installment of any game should have an original story. It's been hard to keep up with your evolving argument since it started with the experience system and since moved on to talking about the story and other subjects.

I really don't think you're stupid H45X78x. I think your original idea lacks proper judgment and rationality (i.e. asinine). Then again this is only my personal belief on the matter. I don't see any reason to change the formula for Fallout to mimick TES considering how well it works and how crude the TES system as a whole is.

I would vote "no" on the TES-like leveling system. It's neat, and in some ways it's realistic. The problem is that in a lot of ways it's not fun, IMO, and in some games I'd rather spend my time playing than doing a repetitive task to raise a skill because simply playing the game doesn't raise it quickly enough compared to my other skills. I hated, hated, HATED sitting around practicing magic skills because Destruction levels up so much faster due to the usage of it being naturally higher-frequency than others. Same with some of the other skills. In "second life" games like the TES series it's somewhat appropriate, because I'm pretty likely to play the same character for a long period of time. In story-driven games like the Fallout series I like to do a certain amount of stuff, finish the main quest, and start a new character using a different type of build.

I think a TES-like system is great in some games, but in others I prefer the more traditional, "go up a level and allocate points" method. I don't think one is necessarily better than the other. It just depends on the game for me.

No. The oblivion leveling forces you to "grind" out-of-character skills or be penalized with sub-optimal stats growth. If you really want a god character who can do EVERYTHING just download the 100 level mod.