I wish they would put an M.L.S in Fallout, as they did for the Elder Scrolls like using an weapon more would level up that particular gun/melee/or unarmed type not as an skill point system. The accuracy for V.A.T.S. is not only based off of the current skill of the weapon but also the characters strength, perception, agility and percentage help from perks and luck. The aide criteria broken off to three groups: Medical (Stimpacks, Doctor bags, Healing others), Survivalist (Animals, Bugs, Insects, Foods you make not what you find.), and Witch Doctor (Narcotics, Herbal, Poisons). I think you get the jist of what I mean. I feel as if, if they had an higher and longer leveling system I could be more connected with my character. I want the feel of success when I kick ass in pistol and rifle guns because I went around and killed so many freak'n things. Not just because I leveled up and put 15-17 points on an criteria and got better at all of the weapons. And have waaay more creatures wondering on the game. I want an even longer time spent honing my skills to my character. Any thoughts...

:foodndrink:
Awesome idea, but a bit late for FNV. Maybe for Fallout 5 or whatevers next (if there is a next). This would specialize your pc to exactly how you play. (Sorry, post via droid :brokencomputer: )

The skill leveling system of Oblivion is realistic, because the more you use a skill, the more it levels. Rightfully, if you spend the entire level running, you shouldn't wake up one morning and suddenly know how to swim better.

The only think I didn't like about it was that it was tied to your stats leveling, and in order to get max stats, you had to do level your minor skills as well. But Fallout won't have this problem because S.P.E.C.I.A.L can only be increased through perks.

But there is another problem. How about non-combat skills like Speech? How would you go about increasing that skill through usage, other than buying training from other people?

Pretty sure "Fallout 4" would be next in line, as I've never heard NV referred to as FO4 and it really feels more like 3.5 than 4.

This is not Oblivion with guns....

I like the skill based levelling as in Morrowind and Oblivion, but it didn't really work the way it ought to IMO - it was a pain if you gained skill in one area "wasting" a potential bonus because you'd levelled up skills that depended upon more than 3 stats. I sorted this out by use of mods (Galasiah's Character Development in Morrowind, and Realistic Levelling in Oblivion) - now to me THOSE are ideal skill based levelling systems, because you don't have to worry about your stats and what skills you were using and whether you should avoid sneak mode for a while because you might waste a level up modifier, you just got on and played the game.

Also Fallout's levelling system has always been based on SPECIAL and perks, and TES has always been based on use, I'm not sure I'd want to see any major change in Fallout levelling - there's a big history to this game and some of us like it the way it is.

It would be good, but it would also have pitfalls as well.

The concept at the moment is not to give you the opportunity to become a super-generalist. You have to specialise in certain things, or trade some things off early in the game to take perks to maximise your later potential.

The skills in themselves aren't the be all and end all...to have a well rounded out character, or a real specialist in something, you have to pick the appropriate perks. Some perks you pick up in the wastes from doing certain things, and these help you later on doing those same things...this was first started in The Pitt, and has become a lot more common in FNV, and not necessarily attached to a quest.

Much of F3 and FNV's system is very similar (read that as almost an exact copy) of a PnP RPG from the '80s: Aftermath. (The fact that the lazer weaponry is pretty much an exact copy of the Aftermath artwork kind of makes me think that someone in the Fallout development history at least is aware of Aftermath).

The tied to your stats leveling is where the whole time put into your character debate would take case. Like for Endurance, don't have all of the endurance skill as an major skill. Have one or two set as an other skill, go up 10 levels with it and then level up your major skills. I like that there's more math to leveling than just points. That part really does depend how you like the time spent on leveling up your character. Non-combatant skills like speech is easy man. Have an more interesting dialogue in the game with every freak'n NPC. Don't have 'NCR Trooper and NCR Scout have the same voice and dialogue or one sentenced line. Make us feel an connection with more people. Have a lot people know something different or special about an area/person/hidden artifact all possibly accessed with your speech level skill. Have more humorous subtexts in there, out of the blue weirdness, even historic background stories. The more you use it even at an low level as say 5 (Elder Scrolls) or 15 (Fallout), the better you are at lying, boosting morals, getting information, scaring. Make enough possible to be able to level up that skill and keep the magazines for quick temporary boosts. And There's also the possibility of more perks hence of more leveling. I hate the 30 level cap, give me more. I hate reaching the highest level when I'm barely at the beginning of the game (quest wise).

So what, we have to grind 50 computers or so to get 1 more point in Science?

I like the current system with challenge rewards, would be nice if they expend it (like making Computer Wiz a perk from challenge)

No, have you played Oblivion? That would give you a better idea.

Like sneaking in the corner and moving forward and backward to 'grind' the sneak skill? Locking and unlocking the lock to grind lockpick skill? Been there, done that.

a mod can be made

Yea keep everything the same and you have another 50 Star Wars Series or Madden game where NOTHING CHANGES AT ALL!!! You're right all of the previous Fallout game has an huge history, so they should go back to click and fight?? I love Fallout, Fallout: 2, and Tactics but this series needs something better added to the mix. I just really hate the short connection fuse I feel with my characters. I said this before, I know it's pain "wasting" bonus points by leveling up more than three skills at a time in different stats area. But use that math, and there's more skills to each stats so you only really screwed yourself over if went crazy on it you know. So if you really wanted to level up your sneak but didn't want to waste your agility, then don't also jump like crazy everywhere or use light armor all the time. Idk, I'm not saying I want it to be exactly like Elder Scrolls, I just want an deeper connection with my character and NPC's. Keep the same system, make it longer....

Actually I'd be perfectly happy with that, I don't give a rat's [censored] about real time combat or realistic graphics or physics engines, if they released another game using the same engine and turn based combat system as Fallout 2, (or for fantasy stuff BG or PS:T) as long as it had a good story, I'd be completely happy playing it.

I'd rather not.
Fallout isn't Oblivion.
Just cause Bethesda owns both IP's doesn't mean that they should have the exact same gameplay.

I like to think of it as this: If I personally would like to be able to convince people to the outlook of my p.o.v, I would practice my grammar, english, "speech" skill more. Why not have the capability of making your character an "super-generalist"? It would definitely take a lot of time, but for those who put the time to it, wouldn't feel an end point of possibilities. You wouldn't have to reach level 30 and have to start all over and have an character good at Speech, Barter, and Medicine and have an high Intelligence to complete an mission this way or get that challenge and sacrifice an melee skill or guns skill or some other sorta important skill you like but can't have, because you can only have an rounded character. I'm not saying make all perks capable of picking, just have more of them and not so powerful. Like the perks you get from challenges yea, you earned to have 25% crit. chance with melee because you mauled 2,000 creatures. [censored] yea, maybe not so drastic but you know? Yes F3 and FNV is too much the same. Kick up some original ideas in the game. Move the scene to Germany or another countries. Talk about the countries who dropped the bombs. Different people, humanists, psychos, how did it start from their p.o.v? Is Japan just gone?? What about Thia or India, hell go middle eastern, have some initiative with the story. That's an whole other topic and is far from what you were saying lol.

I to would like a M.L.S. like oblivion but the issues make it hard. I would prefer them raising the level cap a little bit more. Maybe in future games?

Really, you don't see how they just put elder scrolls into the original Fallout series?? I don't mean completely make Fallout like Elder Scrolls, I just want an deeper connection with the character. Elder Scrolls is just the only example I have. I hit level 30 and there's nothing else to do. Kill that Gecko...for what, just because it's there I guess. Why bother putting more effort to something when you reached the top too soon?? Keep the original level system, for say, just make it longer. Less points per level, or more of an percentage than just 100 skill points. Let it go to 255 per skill and nearly everything is an percentage of what or who your character is.

I'd rather not change Fallout's skill point system to TES's skill system, as they are different styles of game both in setting and levelling mechanics.

The fact that Fallout uses an exp/skill point allocation system is one of it's core quirks/features, like the TES systems skill improvement through use or Fable's exp/orb/follower system.


To use an anology that I hope doesn't happen, how would you feel if they decided to scrap both the Fallout and TES levelling systems to go for something like they have in Fable 3, where you gain 'exp' which you use to purchase character skills/upgrades/spells (where applicable)/character-npc interaction expressions/proficiency at various jobs etc.

Please God no... Fallout is not Oblivion. Grinding for skill was incredibly annoying. Don't get me wrong, I loved Oblivion, but hell no.

Yea if you got the joy out of sneaking back in forth in one spot for hours (I know that takes hours) go for it. I'm saying you get to the top of your character and they're still not at perfection way to soon in the game. Get exp, lvl up, put it all on your sneak because you like crit. hits, or being a ninja or just cool up close head shots, but you also can't be awesome in melee or explosives or anything else. You can get four or five skills to 100 and everything else will svck. I don't want to be limited at my fighting skills or gun skills because I also wanted an smooth talker or lockpicking so I can get that challenge this time.

So this about having no motivation to kill stuff at lvl 30?
It would be better to allow us to keep leveling up not gaining any skill points, perks or +hp.
But there isn't any reason to change it to Oblivions.
A lot of other things could be done to tweak the current system so we won't reach max too soon.
Skills to 300.
Perks every 3rd or 4th level.
Massive exp requirements for higher levels.
health per level is significantly decreased.
A lot of things could be tweaked.
Fallout does not need to be Oblivion With Guns.

This is more than having motivation "to kill stuff" at lvl 30. It's the motivation to continue at all because your at lvl 30. Fallout 3 and NV is TES with guns dude. Just non-depth dialogues, no spells or "fantasy" so to speak, shorter leveling systems, and no drastic changes from the previous predecessors. I said the skills thing already you quoted me on it... Look here's a way Post Your Idea Of How You Would Like The Leveling System Changed. Really, I just want more depth to the character. I only felt that connection through Morrowind and Oblivion. F3 was waaaay to easy, specially after "Aiding The Outcasts" was installed. Once you learned how to wear power armor in the beginning of the game, you were almost unstoppable. you basically were unless you did something stupid like fight a deathclaw at lvl 8. Back to the topic, in TES, you could get to the point to where you didn't reach max but felt comfortable about your character. If you wanted more you could sharpen other skills, you can't do that with Fallout. That's an better way to look at this thread.

it's not so exciting on an ps3, I would still play the game, but only on pc and spare time....I have a lot that. lol

If you want it to be a challenge then why don't you roleplay as someone?
The role I chose tight now, Jimmy T.
He's a slick punk.
He's not going to wear any armor cause it "ain't his style."
That alone will make the game harder for me.
He will only use pistols and knifes but occasionally use a shotgun when out in the wastes. (No revolvers)
This will also make for a more challenging playthrough.
So if you want to wear power armor to make it easy for you then feel free to do so.

"Depth" on the other hand.
I understand what you mean by it.
But still, what you're out after is Elder Scrolls, not Fallout.
Adding this "depth" to Fallout means removing a vital element of it's gameplay.
Too much have already been ripped out of the fallout franchise when they made FO3, they keep it up and it will only be Fallout by name.
Being a fan of the first games before FO3 was released I never want this to happen.
I still want innovation, sure, but in the right way.

That is not to say that Oblivions system is bad.
At first it might seem like one doesn't really gain anything from leveling up because the increase in proficiency is so minimal but when looking back one can go "Wow, I've actually improved a lot!".
So it's a great system that is more realistic and immersive.
But it's Elder Scrolls' system, not Fallouts.