=Spoilers=




- Mr. House is either dead or unable to activate the securitrons at The Fort
- The Courier is either dead or unwilling to help anyone, and any quests that would help either the NCR or Legion aren't done by anyone else
- The Boomers, BoS, and Enclave remnants haven't been contacted by anyone
- The Great Khans have been convinced to join the Legion (they most likely would have without the Courier interfering)
- President Kimble is assassinated
- None of the Fiend leaders are killed

Who do you think would win the second battle at Hoover Dam in this situation? I would say probably the Legion, since it seems like the NCR wasn't in very good condition and they needed a lot of help from the Courier to sort things out. It would be a close battle either way though.

First of all, wrong section.

Second of all, I say Mr. House.

Mr house would win he'd just get someone else to do his quests


So...poll dosent have mr. House poll is racist

Benny.

Also if house was dead Benny would download yes man to the computer and then they wouldwin

Can it be moved?



This thread is assuming that for whatever reason Mr. House, Yes Man, Benny, or any other wild-card type character aren't involved. Its not that I don't like those characters, I just want to see what people think the outcome of the battle would be if it was just NCR and Legion fighting.

in that case, Legion

But if it wasn't that case: Mr. House

Definitely Legion. Caesar would more than likely

but Lanius would surely crush NCR resistance at the Dam.

Honestly I think that the Legate could walk in by himself and kill all of the NCR. :confused:

Legion, I don't really understand why they even need the player characters help, seems to do fine on their own. :shrug:

Legion, hands down.

Quite simply nether, think of it, even if you did nothing some parts would sort themselve out. While you gotta remeber the attle got vet rangers against a crazy hard army. So in the end alot would die, though this sounds baised, but legate would be cruddy ranged guy against him from a nice camping point. bang! hes died

There have been lots of reports from people in 1st recon who have sniped the Legate, yet he's alive.

It seems to me that the legion really collected alot of troops before the battle, so I think you can say that the legion wont get any reinforcements. The NCR in the other hand, could manage to send in moore reinforcements.

One thing I'm curious about though is that:
Why is Legion so into taking the dam head on?
They've taken the southern part; cottonwood cove, nelson, searchlight, nipton.
They could easily take the northern part.
They have Khans, Omerta and possibly White Glove from the west.
So why take the dam head on?
Why not just circulate the dam, and trap the NCR in a corner?
They could surround them on all sides and simply wait for the ones in the dam to starve to death unless they try to make a break for it.
I just don't see why Legion has to go full frontal assault on the dam except for maybe honor and the fact that the final quest had to take place at the same place as the other paths.

Why is Legion so into taking the dam head on? Caesar answer's that. It'd be his Rubicon. Sure they've slipped into the area like mice finding their way into a home for winter, but if they come marching in like an army of ants to a new colony (other in new colony in this case being NCR) then it will incite fear into the enemy. It's more symbolic than practical.


Taken is the wrong word. It's more about guerilla tactics, inciting fear to drop troop morale. 'Cold Cold Heart' is basically an example of what's happened in the soutern areas.


Not so, the NCR would be able to defend the dam still, causing more problems, it'd be better to gain control over the dam first.


The Three Families are all indicated to have been regional powers, likely residing in parts of Vegas before House emerged. As to the Khans, we know their roots.


They have the superior combat training and numbers.


Do you mean encircle? If so, then like I said, the Dam is easily defensible, plus it's the key to who holds the region.


To many unknown variables. NCR could bomb them, send vast reinforcements, and on their side, the Legion would waste more food than neccessary feeding it's troops while waiting.


The Legion, whether you will admit or not, were and still are nothing more than tribals, and tribes in history, usually found honor and glorious charges into battle as these things of bragging rights and increasing their reputation in the world. Like I said as well, The Legion has the numbers amassed, if they wanted to they'd easily just throw lives at the wall. With Lanius at the rear, they are afraid to just idly retreat.

I thought that was Joshua Graham they were talking about.

Okay, makes sense now.

The old-legate is Joshua Graham.

Because the Legion are afraid for NCRs Cannon, the Boomers and the Brotherhood. Caesar already lost one battle for the Dam and its clear to me he is worried about losing a second. Still I would agree it would seem like the Legion would have won without outsided help. Unless someone else inside NCR was able to get those turbines working

Caesar was also

I know that, but is it actually said whether or not Lanius has survived several headshots too? Because I've only heard it said of Graham.

No, the only decent part of Martyr's anolysis is the psychological propaganda part.

Seeing the NCR's supply route would be completely cut off if the Legion hold Nipton or move their base from Nelson to Novac, no more fear needs to be inflicted.

The North is a gonna for NCR as well, with Camp Guardian wiped out and Bitterspring crowded with refugees; not to mention how indefensible Camp Golf is to Lake Mead.

Khans, Omerta and White Gloves would provide enough distraction so NCR cannot defend Hoover with full strength.

And if the Legion trap the NCR inside the dam, sooner or later they will fall since NCR's morale isn't high to begin with. NCR wouldn't send more reinforcement outside of Mojave for all we know, and their only artillery battery isn't exactly well protected.

Inculta, Lucius, Lanius even Deadsea show they know a degree of tactics and strategy; so the only possible explanation is Caesar is a bad field commander.

It's pretty obvious, with the rules you stated, that the Legion would win and they'd win big.

He is keeping Oliver fixated on defending the Dam while he rips the guts out of the NCR's supply lines and deals with every minor faction that might possibly help the NCR. When he moves he intends to trap Oliver's entire Army at the dam and annihilate it. With McCarran, Camp Golf and Forlorn Hope overrun the NCR forces will dissolve and then he can butcher them as they run. A siege would encourage the NCR to sent more troops to relieve them, but if the entire NCR Expeditionary Force is wiped out in hours they'll be afraid to continue the War.....until Caesar invades the NCR and they have no choice in the matter.

The period after the NCR's supply lines are cut is when you maximize the fear......you want them to rout, not keep thier head and take sensible steps to counter you. Caesar's plan is quite sensible but it hinges on the fact that Oliver is a cretin and won't figure out what Caesar is doing to him until it's too late...if ever.