The quest to kill Paarthurnax is optional and not connected to the Main Quest in any way. Maybe I'm giving Bethesda too much credit, but maybe the quest itself bugged, so maybe there's more to it if you turned down the Blades' request/demand. (Like in New Vegas. There was a quest that you could do for Freeside, you could get the NCR to give them supplies...but it turned out to be so bugged that you couldn't even get that as an option, thus altering the end game. Of course, Obsidian/Bethesda never patched it.)

It didn't "bug" as far as I know (on pc). I refused, and Delfie and Esbie turned their backs on me. Well, on the toon who did the MQ that is. I suppose it's possible (quite possible, considering....) that the ENTIRE thing is so bugged that no one has yet seen it "right". If that's the case.... well.... wow.

The Thalmor would still know if those two helped you. They aren't devoid of supporters or eyes anywhere in Skyrim.

But, either way, this isn't a novel. If we applied that logic, a LOT of things would be different, considering that a long-dead Septim nearly comes back to life (Potema) and an Aedric artifact nearly destroys Mundus because of a rogue Thalmor.

I definitely don't think they were intended to be killed, at least not until some future time. I've said this too many times, but both actors they hired are too well known (and probably well paid) for mere throwaway parts. Even if you see them as reprehensible, I still think the conflict would be drawn out, just because of the actors involved. Take for example Alan Rickman in the Harry Potter movies. You already know Snape isn't to be trusted in the first story.. yet, he still remains. It'd be totally lame if Harry Potter acted on impulse and pushed snape off a cliff.

Just for example.

Well, the bug that destroyed that quest appeared in every New Vegas (something about the scripting made it break). I'm not sure how they figured out that it bugged but if someone here could do it...that might get an answer.

Could do with the CK - because you can open the .esm in full, and scope all the quests/quest stages. So if there were things that never happened, but the scripting was in place....

They might not necessarily be intended to be killed...but that entire quest seems like it might be broken. It doesn't make sense to deny it and it stay in your journal. Hell, it may very well be that they intended for you to destroy Paarthurnax but they made an error which removed it from the MQ.

Who knows? The whole point is that a TES game is supposed to have a free world where you can make your own choices, for better or worse. Just like the parts of the MQ which forced you to join the Thieves Guild (although that could be avoided) and the College of Winterhold (I'm not sure if that can be), the ability of the player to make their own decisions is being eroded in favor of...whatever this is.

I don't have too many expectations of what a TES game is. They're always updating that idea. Hell, half of the complaints on this forum wouldn't exist if that wasn't true

In this case, I think they're experimenting more with more directed narrative and motifs. Storylines aren't as open and some character ideas don't mesh well with the land. Same with the hard to avoid Thieves Guild recruitment. I think they want you to be kind of an ass.

If they kept "experimenting" in a 6th TES game, I would stop playing them and I'd wager that most of their fanbase would stop too.

You can't avoid joining the Mages' Guild IF you want the word wall and/or the Gauldur Amulet fragment in Saarthal (unless you're like me and use the console.... which I do now that I've finished the MQ, complete with MG, once). After I've done the big kahuna once, I won't ever go there again.... I'll just play (and sometimes RP) my own game from then on. I won't do the civil war either.

Nothing lasts forever, I guess. Prepare for it. This might be their most successful game in the franchise, and at the end of the day, that's going to convince them they did something right.

Ugh. Aiming for...that ruined my second favorite RPG series (Fable).

Really? Fable is one of those that has improved, imho.

Well, considering how many years between games.... probably the only "fanbase" they lose by the next one will be those like me who may be too damn old to play by then.

Bethesda's next game is Fallout 4, I think. To see how TES 6 will be, just play that.


It's disappointing to have leveling and progression in the world controlled by how far you've gone in the story. It's even worse when the game is already on rails. People who get upset over the gradual loss of spells/effects need to play the Fable series. That's a massive loss. (Plus, aiming for that crowd probably killed the franchise. It's doubtful the series will end as the planned 5 game arc.)

I don't play the Fallouts. I grew up in the era when we were taught in grade school how to "hopefully, maybe" live over an atomic attack. My family worked in the atomic and defense industries. I really haven't any interest in games which are set in a US where the "worst" I grew up hearing about and planning for actually happened.

If it's any consolation, Fallout 4 *might* be in a recivilized area. (The Mojave Wasteland was entirely tame compared to the Capital Wasteland. The West Coast is somewhat back to normal by the time of NV.)

Well, I'm glad their version of the SW US seems to be getting back to normal.... I just really don't even want to go there. I actually still have nightmares about the things we were told (the stuff that would happen if you were x miles from ground zero, etc.) and this is close to 60 years later.

[And pooh, my bad - sorry about the derail.]

I hope the reminants will nuke it back in to an apocalyptic world. It was so immersion breaking to see a Fallout environment like New Vegas. They might've as well call it The Adventure of the Courier.

I'm still hoping that they get Obsidian in again for the next FO game myself

That said, even if Beth don't go down that route and they make FO4 themselves (which they probably will) FO4 might not be entirely indicative of how TES6 will turn out.

Overall, I am liking Skyrim but I do think the writers just need to push themselves a little further at times - FO3 showed they can. Honestly, The Pitt was extremely well written.

That said, I don't have a problem with Skyrim forcing me to make hard decisions at times - they just need to tidy up the resolutions a little more.

Looking at the Blades lore, they have a history of killing dragons that weren't bothering anyone. Sure, they've killed bad dragons too, but they are completely indiscriminate. They also stop helping you save the world and fight dragons that are killing people unless you do what they want. I mean, heck, talk about not having your priorities straight. Then they want to go against Paarthrunax because of crimes he committed, even though he totally redeemed himself by being instrumental in saving humanity (and honestly, the rest of the world). If he hadn't helped, then Alduin would still be in charge. Anyhow, essentially the Blades are bigots against dragons and it is pretty disgusting.

Sure, Paarthrunax knew that eventually Alduin would return. That doesn't mean he could have united the dragons under his rule and dominated the land. He would have known he'd very likely have a long, long time to prepare for Alduins return, shoring up allies and preparing magics to bring Alduin down if he wanted. Paarthrunax instead decided to avoid acquiring power, because dragons apparently have an addition problem with it (or at least he does). He's avoided the temptation for THOUSANDS of years. There's no reason to think that's suddenly going to change. If it really was that easy for him to fall off the wagon, it would have happened many times by now.


Do you also go and kill all mages, since they might slip up and kill people? Is anyone with power fair game? Who else does your "Noble" psychopath kill? Tons of people with lots of power...really can't risk the chance they'll abuse it, right?

Where's the logic in things spilling over into violence? When Ghandi taught passive resistance to fellow Indians, did they start killing his followers if they didn't like it? No. People aren't going to fight someone who isn't an enemy if that person isn't interested in fighting -- not unless they'd do it anyway. It isn't like Paarthrunax is going to FORCE the Way of the Voice on dragons -- that's not how the Way works and against its very nature.

Lastly, some alchoholics don't slip up ever again. Also, there's a vast difference between a matter of decades and thousands of years. Paarthrunax has lasted hundreds of times longer than "a few decades" without losing his Way. That speaks volumes.

Edit: The Court of Drachasor sentenced Paarthurnax to two THOUSAND years confinement to the top of one mountain to meditate on his crimes and continue to teach humans how to harness their Thu'um. This was commuted to time served.

Nah. I like that the West Coast/Mojave is recivilizing. I think they should do a game in the East Coast again.


I don't think FO3 is a good example of Bethesda writers doing a good job. Or pushing themselves. They screwed up the Fallout timeline there. Everything was written as though it *just* happened. FO3 was a fun game, but I had to remove it from the Fallout canon to enjoy it.

Dragons originated in Avavir if im not mistaken....you say The Blades(Akaviri Dragonguard) was just killing them for no reason? I beg to differ...The Blades killed them because the Dragons commited mass atrocities against the people of Akavir before they came to Tamriel...they fled Akavir because the Akaviri people refused to worship them and actually fought back and drive them out....and they had good reason to do so....they chansed them to Tamriel because they couldn't risk letting them rebuild their strength...you don't let someone like that....get a chance to come back and get you.....




Sure, Paarthrunax knew that eventually Alduin would return. That doesn't mean he could have united the dragons under his rule and dominated the land. He would have known he'd very likely have a long, long time to prepare for Alduins return, shoring up allies and preparing magics to bring Alduin down if he wanted. Paarthrunax instead decided to avoid acquiring power, because dragons apparently have an addition problem with it (or at least he does). He's avoided the temptation for THOUSANDS of years. There's no reason to think that's suddenly going to change. If it really was that easy for him to fall off the wagon, it would have happened many times by now.



Your comparing different things. Paarthurnaax himself even says he is going to show the "might and right of his Thu'um" to bring the Dragons under the way of the voice...that means showing some sort power over them...by overpowering them into submission...theres no two ways about it...the fact that Odaving says its tyranny is quite telling...that Paarthurnaax is going to try and dictate to the dragons how they must live...taking away their freedom of free choice.....if a dragon chooses to be peaceful, it should be because of their own free choice...not because someone like Paarthurnaax wants to force it on them.

Also...you say Paarthurnaax has been peaceful for thousands of years....well what has big Paarthurnaax been eating hmmm? i mean have the Greybeards just been bring him a Big Mac everyday? As far as i cna tell...Dragons havea taste for flesh...human flesh to be exact...they like to eat people...to them its like a juicy steak...your not telling me Paarthurnaax has become a vegetarian now are we?...surely you jest...when i killed him i found a set or armor in his belly...it was quite fresh too considering i could wear it...i would say he had a man, an elf, or an orc for lunch!

So let me get this straight...Paarthurnaax is pretty much guilty for Crimes against Humanity....ok.

now you do realize there is NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS on murder and Crimes against humanity...if a human being could live for 3 thousand years and he murdered people or commited crimes against humanity...if that 3 thousand year old human was caught, he would still have to face the music for his crimes...it doesn't matter how long of a time has passed or what he has done...the law is the law...there is NO statute of limitations on murder or crimes against humanity....none....it doesn't matter if it took place yesterday or 4,000 years from now....it matter little....

so do you believe in the rule of law and eqaulity? or do you think certain people deserve favors and are exempt from the law?

The fact is....the punishment for multiple murders and crimes against humanity is death...Paarthurnaax admitted with his very own mouth to my character that he did indeed do those things, the he is indeed guilty of crimes against humanity....since there is no satute of limitations on such atrocities...it matters not if its 1 day or 10,000 years...justice must still be carried out according to the law....either you believe in the rule of law or you dont/

ever go to your court house? see the lady standing on top of it holding the scales with the blindfold? you know what that symbolizes?

it means it matters not who you are, personal feelings have no place in the carrying out of laws and justice....judges have to treat their best freinds the same way they do people they don't like under the law.

i understand, Paarthurnaax was a freind...but what he done...justice had to be served...that is not being a "psychotic Noble Knight" that is delevering justice in the manner according to laws of man. Not mentioing any religion, governments are instruments of a higher power to exact justice on evildoers...thats what governments are supposed to do....Paarthurnaax commited evil acts.....had he requested a trial...he would have gotten one...instead he admitted his guilt openly to me....at that point i had no choice but to carry out the judgement as it is written in the law...Paarthurnaax is no better then anyone else....

Delphine is right when she says "i know Paarthurnaax helped humans, but that doesn't make him better it makes him worse" why does she say that?

Because Paarthurnax is trying to blind the Dragonborn to the scales of justice by hoping to get inside his head and his heart to avoid the justice he knows he so rightly deserves...Paarthurnaax knows he deserves the justice that is exacted upon him.

Is it ok that Paarthurnaax ending many innocent lives...men, women, children who never got a chance to live, never got the chance to smile...babies that never got to enjoy the warmth of the sunlight, to har the boirds chrip in the sky, to rwad their first book, to get their first kiss....Paarthurnaax took all of that away from them....women who lost husbands...husbands that lost wives...Thoise cries echo out through the centuries of the gorss injustice that was inflicted upon them by the criminal paarthurnaax.

you are allowing your "friendship and love" of Paarthurnaax blind you to the truth that he is a murdering criminal who commited crimes against humanity and destroied countless peoples hopes and dreams and robbed many people of everything they had...and during his rampage of destroying towns robbed many innocent children from enjoying their first kiss, their first dance, going to school, meeting friends, reading books, etc....

again theres no statute of limitations on murder or crimes against humanity(Which Paarthurnaax is guilty of both on probably hundreds of counts, perhaps thousands) Ilike any judge never gets pleasure out of having to serve such a sentence....but its the right sentence to serve....justice must be served....it must laways be known that the rule of law rules skyrim, Tamriel, or even in the real world...to compromise the law based on your feelings means you compromise everything soceity stands for....as the blind lady holding scales symbolizes...you must put your personal feelings aside and look at the law....and determine if he/she is guilty or innocent...and open confession on the part of Paarthurnaax seals it....

leaving him alive is an injustice....it matters not if those people or their relatives are still alive or not...lawlessness has no place in any world...be it Skyrim or anything else...

allow Paarthurnaax to live and helping him is aiding and offering comfort to a criminal...a murderer, and worse....you call that justice? i don't..

As i said before...it tugged at my heart to end Paarthurnaax....but i remeber back to the blind lady holding the scales....justice must be served...the arm of justice knows no bounds...it reaches across time and space...it knows no limits...has no constraints...there is a reason murder and crimes against humanity have no statute of limitations....either you beleive in the rule of law or you don't...its pretty simple...those who let Paarthurnaax live are allowing their personal feelings to cloud their judgement.....imagine what americna would be like if judges allowed their personal feelings to get in the way of serving justice? that would not be a world i would want to live in.

What about the fact, that nobody would be alive if it were not for him? If he had not helped humans in the first place, he would have escaped justice entirely, the mere fact anyone can judge him now is because of what he did. He may have killed many people, but he also allowed many more to be born. Without his action, there would be no present or future as we know it, because nobody would have been able to defeat Alduin.

As to your diatribe about justice, you seem to be forgetting that the scales themselves represent the balance of justice and mercy. Too much mercy becomes complacency, too little becomes tyranny.

Erm, you're talking about OUR rule of law, something very different from the rule of law in Skyrim or even all of Tamriel. If we go by the in-game rule of law, killing a chicken is more horrendous a crime than striking a child with a blade. "Murder" can be bypassed by "tradition" if it's called a duel. Stealing a horse is as equal a crime as committing murder. Crimes in one hold don't apply to another hold, I can commit murder in Riften and walk freely around in Markarth forever.

Emperors, generals, and other notable figures have and were forgiven for their crimes just because they upheld a greater good. Titus Mede the first comes to mind, along with some of the Septims in their dynasty. Paarth killed people, yes, but he also saved the planet...twice. Plus, the Blades have a double standard of dragons and crime. Odahviing is an ancient dragon who was brought back to life, he did kill people, and yet, the Blades freely allow you to use him to your ends, even if that involves....killing people.


So no, there are statues of limitations. Crime is not so black and white, and the law isn't like it is in our world. Justice isn't blind in Skyrim, it's downright [Mentally handicapped].