I think the problem is that this issue just comes out of the blue, and isn't very fleshed out or explained.

1. How is what Paarthurnax has supposedly done in the past, any worse than what the other dragons have done, let alone worse than Odahviing, who they apparently don't have an issue with despite him being allied with Alduin far more recently, and he also obviously is not the pacifist type like Paarthurnax.

2. The actual crimes themselves. The blades are incredibly vague about the issue, they don't even bother going into detail about why what he did was actually so terrible, or what he did at all to earn him such infamy. We also can't question Paarthurnax or Odahviing on the matter either, so we don't get much of an explanation from the blades, and we can't get differing perspectives from the one being accused, or from a third party.

3. It is presented as a strict ultimatum, based on an oath that again, is not explained to us in its actual meaning, and also goes against their previous oath to our character, yet somehow supercedes it.

All in all, it doesn't feel very much like an actual dilemma to me, so much as a cheap, and forced attempt at creating a dilemma.

My problem is: once the devs sell the game to players (SPMR game, not MMO obviously) it is NO LONGER THEIR GAME. It is the PLAYERS' game from then on, to do with as they will. Somehow, the companies who produce these games never seem to get that....

And it does have to do with the blades - because this is one of those things the devs are force-feeding. There's NO REASON for the blades to even be in this game. The current emperor has his own security folks, NOT the blades btw. So the blades in this game are nothing but a dev-construct to force the player into a predetermined role, with a predestined ending.

And THAT is counter TES itself, which has always been a pretty darn good example of an open world. I never had this "herded" feeling in the other games. Not once. But every moment of the first play-through (before I got crazy....) I felt herded (just like cattle in a squeeze-chute) toward the devs'/writers' destiny - NOT MINE.

Even that I'm not sure on. If you read the Mysterious Akavir, there's a whole army just waiting to invade Tamriel, led by a so called "Tiger Dragon", Tosh Raka. He/She sounds like some other type of Dragonborn. I'm wondering who would be a good benefit if Tamriel would have to defend itself. A reformed Blades army? Or Paarthurnax? But then, Paarth is peaceful, so maybe he'd be of no help. Or any dragons he converts to the Way. In that case, I wonder if not converting dragons is a good idea as well. Odahviing says you're the new Alduin, more or less. Does this mean they'd eventually accept your authority?

You never want to take as fact anything you read in TES games....

The Akavir are really intriguing though. I want to take it seriously, because it's so removed from anything in TES so far. I'd love another future TES in some outlandish setting. edit: And as for this game, I wonder what is the "ideal" set up, for Tamriel to prepare on all kinds of things. Be it Thalmor, Akavir, whatever.

By you being the new Alduin, I think he meant that as a title because you vanquished Alduin. It's not like you become an immortal diety or the new harbinger of doom.


And Akavir attacking Tamriel?
Am I the only one who get a funny image of the Empire and Thalmor(along with their old enemies) banding together to fend off an Akaviri invasion?

Me too.... but I'm not holding my breath. Yeah.... Akavir would be a great game - but only if it was "back when"....


I figure the Thalmor would make common cause with the Akaviri, myself....

Yes. But they can't revive without Alduin. So if the dovahkiin does his job, the world only has to worry about parth(and possibly odahviing) which as we've seen from the game, the guards can take down on their own.(And he'll stay dead until Alduin suddenly pops up again)

No Alduin didn't die.(Paarth and the greybeards even tell you this) The ending of the kalpa is necessary. It's still going to happen one day. We just delayed it. Terrible things would happen if the kalpa were left to run forever.

So that brings me to my other point. If Alduin returns it doesn't matter if paarth's still around or not. If the DK is dead by then the world's screwed anyways.

To me, it seems like the most natural progression, since dragons are out of the bag at this point. And we're merely the "dragon of the north" in this game. There's a "dragon in the east" apparently.

Um.... Truthfully.... I'm not really interested in "ongoing" any more. I'd far rather go BACK to ancient Akavir.

Actually, the Akaviri sounds strong enough to actually oppose the Thalmor.

I believe the Thalmor would be very pleased to see them put down a notch. They hold control through being the strongest, which they will lose if another strong power rises, such as the Akaviri.

lol.. that would just mean more Blades for you then. Or rather, "dragonguard".

Well, since the Thalmor exemplify the "wipe the lesser folk from Nirn so that WE can return to godhood (nihilism, thinly disguised as nirvana) I rather think they'd ally with the Akaviri so that they did all the "wiping" dirty work. Now, how the Thalmor would handle the leftover Akavir troops etc. - well, would be interesting, ain't?

I hear that, Skyrim is really one giant implication of things that could happen. It will be interesting to see how the narrative deals with that in VI.

We're collectively left to form our own inferences with the narrative just as we are left to create our own classes with no static boundaries from previous games where you choose a staunchly defined playstyle.

The imagination reels at such implications... I sure hope they elaborate on this concept in VI.

I want to play an Akavir though, since I'm Asian, and I admit, sometimes it gets old not seeing those aesthetics in games. In Western games I mean. Easy to find it elsewhere. Last time a western developer was inspired by Asian motifs, it was amazing (Jade Empire), if a bit underrated. edit: Also, it sounds like the Tiger People might/could be possibly related to Khajiits? So that'd be cool.

It's easier to wipe them out if they are all divided and fighting amongst themselves.

Plus, the Akavari probably won't go on a genocidal campaign. They'll just conquer, occupy or raid. Extermination seems unreasonable for them.

It's better for the Thalmor if the Empire wins and both the Akaviri and the Empire remains weak, rather than that the Empire falls and the Akaviri grows even stronger.

It would mean the Thalmor would have to wage full scale war on a fully strong Akaviri Empire to subdue them, and that would be extremely risky, and even if the Thalmor won, it would cost them heavily.

So, you see the Akavir as Asian? I didn't ever get that from anything.... Then again, I don't pay much attention to that sort of thing. Lots of my toons turn out Asian-looking regardless I'm totally WASA - just like the look I guess. Then again, many of my toons are Khajiit - hard to make an Asian Khajiit....

I can't make any Asian looking characters. If anything though, I probably look like a Bosmer in real life. lol

As for Akavir, yeah, I think they're supposed to be sort of far east, and some of the lore tends to give them sort of East Asian type of names. Some of the races seem a bit inspired by some Indian stuff as well. Like the amount of beast races, and beast men who are considered gods. In Thai/Hindu culture, there's a whole opera of figures like this. Like Hanuman, the monkey-god. This goes without mentioning the Blades being somewhat inspired by the Samurai, in armor and blade style.

Maybe it's easier to make Asian-look fem toons....? I never play males, so really have no idea about that. As far as the armor/blade style - I just figured they wanted to make them "different". I'd have to go back through the older games to see if their stuff was more Samurai then as well - don't remember now, since when I'm playing the old games now, I am NOT playing the MQ/blades crap.

Now, I LOVE the katana-style swords myself (as long as they're one-hand - I just really don't like two-hand swords in this game.... unlike WoW, where I would KILL for a really decent looking two-hand sword for my hunters.... *sigh*.... rather than staves.... but then, they're changing all that next xpac so who knows....) - but I don't want a katana with the whole blades-stuff attached at the umbilical....

Yeah, the two handers are more fun to me, but it svcks that there aren't many unique ones. Something equivalent to Wuuthrad at least. Doesn't have to be the most powerful thing.

Parth is not their captive. He is their teacher - their guru. Parth is the one that taught them to shout.

Except they weren't crimes. As a Dovah, Paarthurnax's job is to keep the 'lesser races' in their place - under Dragon rule - by any means necessary. This being the case, any human fatalities resulting from his actions are merely collateral damage and as such not criminal in any way.

I'll grant that as far as the humans he did that to are concerned he's a genocidal maniac, however their behavior towards their own kind (and others as well) hasn't been any better over the last 5000 or so years (and may even be worse, depending on who you ask). As such, I would argue that they have no right to stand in judgement against him, unless they're going to put themselves on trial for similar crimes at the same time.

This sounds all very legalistic. I don't care what law it falls under. And if I roleplay a defender of, say, "a mortal" centric stance (men, mer, etc), then I wouldn't care at all that "Paarthurnax's job is to keep lesser races" in check.. even if it was ordained by Akatosh. This assumes I care about Akatosh. If he commanded that, I'd consider Akatosh a schmuck as well, and someone who needs to be wiped out of everyone's memory. Either that, or I would doubt that they were Akatosh's explicit commands in the first place. It could be all nonsense.

In any case, Paarthurnax knows he did wrong. So it's all moot. He doesn't fight back, and admits himself that he wouldn't trust a dragon. It's not about right or wrong. That's already solved - he'd admit it himself. It's about whether he should die. Which is really up for question.

The question of law was brought into it when someone said he deserves to die for his "crimes". You cant have crimes without law. If you dont care about law then its not justice its vengeance.

A person can have personal values/philosophy/morals, and weigh things on that basis. And still meet the requirements of justice. Especially in this game. The whole game world is a mess, and it's up how you roleplay your character's private moral leanings on matters. Not laws. Some situations position you ways where an entire city is corrupt (like in Markarth), and you would actually be doing "justice" by breaking some of their laws. Laws are merely a social construct. Not the equivalent of justice itself. It'd be nice, but it's not always the case.