Not surprising that the Dremora and the two vamps weren't permanent, but I'd have thought that a few of the others on the list would be.

I haven't really tested, as I've been collecting data for use in mods when the CK comes out, but I would think that any quest-related NPC that starts essential and then loses the tag during the quest would qualify. Not sure about Ulfric or General Tullius, though, as each only loses the tag at the end of the other's CW line.

Just don't go anywhere near the lighthouse again, and I mean anywhere near it - there's a unique bug or wonky bit of programming that causes the whole cell to be cleared sometime after completing the quest if you're even in the vicinity of it, rather than actually going inside. Somehow the bodies normally inside the lighthouse are tied to the dead horse outside, so going near the lighthouse will cause the horse to disappear, which then causes Rumati and company to disappear. Thankfully this seems to be a unique case with Frostflow.


I just wrote a guide on Gamefaqs on how to make the most of decorating, and it sounds like it would help you out quite a bit; head over to the Skyrim 360 boards and type 'decor' into the search bar - should be the first one that comes up (still waiting for it to get stickied).

Corpses are a mess in this game though if you want them to stay in a certain position. A big thing you might run into is that if you have pre-deads in your house and you stay away longer than the normal refresh window (7 days or 10 days), they will still be there when you return, but they will attempt to revert to the original pose in which you found them. So if you found a corpse sitting against a log facing south, or laying on its stomach facing east, then that's the way you'll find it if you return to your house after staying away too long.

If some of you necromancers out there are on pc, there's a mod that increases dead body clearing to 600 days. It's an optional file for Wars in Skyrim IV, called Blood Coins - Necromancer. You don't have to get the whole mod, but it is rather good.

I visited a dungeon as part of a College of Winterhold quest. Inside was master vampires (dead) being experimented on. Would this be an example of permanent corpses? Or would they eventually disappear if taken out of the cave/dungeon?

Supposedly that would be permanent if you use the Thrall spell, but it hasn't been tested yet. I'm currently doing the Civil War questline so I can test Ulfric and his generals.

Yet another Thrall bug I've encountered is according to my "active effects," I currently have 5 Thralls active. I know I can use a Flame Cloak to eliminate the effects, but it's just curious that it sticks around.

Quick update...

I Thralled Ulfric and Galmar Stone-Fist. After putting them in Breezehome and leaving Whiterun for 30 days, they are both in the house so I presume they are permanent corpses that are safe to use. I'm still Thralling others and leaving them in Breezehome for 30 days to test out their permanency.

That being the case, it would seem to prove my theory about quest-related essentials, which is rather useful information as there are any number of minor people who won't be missed after you do their task(s) and can be readily converted into 'assistants' for use in the field.

Once the CK is out I'll be stripping the 'essential' tag off almost everyone and replacing it with the 'only the player can kill me' tag, then I'll make a new Necromancer and see if that makes a difference in whether or not one can still make them permanent.

I don't know how exactly things work in Skyrim (too many damn variables as far as respawning / refreshing goes), but there's never really been a direct correlation between once-essentials and permanent corpses - it's just one of those things that affects random specific NPCs.

But like I said, that might not be the case in Skyrim - only NPC I can think of that refutes the correlation is Susanna the Wicked, who is essential prior to 'Blood on the Ice,' yet won't leave behind a permanent corpse. However, given the nature of the quest, the original NPC is likely removed and replaced with the mutilated body - I ran into something like this in Oblivion, where you could get two copies of Volanaro and Selenia Orania's bodies if you killed them and permanent-tized them prior to the related Mage's Guild mission.

So it would be interesting to see if they actually went at least slightly out of their way to implement some rhyme and reason to the notion of permanent corpses in Skyrim.

I'm not sure if that's entirely correct. "The Caller" who you encounter during the College quests is not permanent. She vanished along with Anise when I tested them out in a previous game. For some reason it would seem to be completely random as to who is permanent and who isn't.

Well I did say 'seems'.

It just occurred to me that it might not be as random as it seems: some NPCs get tagged 'markfordelete' by their controlling script after the quest they are involved in is completed, which renders them eligible for cleanup. The Caller might be one such, although I'll need access to the quest's and the caller's scripts to check that.

If it turns out that that is the case then we'll be able to considerably narrow down the list immediately, as any such NPC would not qualify due to the tag overriding the normal disposal rules.

How do you all play a necromancer? Im curious.

I set mine up as a Diablo 2 style necromancer. sooo.. I have..

Major - Conjuration, One-handed, Light Armor.

Minor - Block, Smithing, Enchanting.

I don't really know anything about Diablo 2, but my Necromancer is primarily based on Conjuration and Illusion, with some Restoration for healing. I let my minions do the fighting for me while sporting robes.

Ah well the diablo 2 necromancer wore light armor, like mail. But the necromancer was also very powerful on his own, he had poison spells (poison nova). Which I always wondered why skyrim doesn't have a poison spell of some sort. I also appy poisons to my weapons alot in skyrim with my necromancer.

So I did another 30 day test and found some interesting results that are confusing...

In Breezehome, I stored the following bodies:

Sild the Warlock
Vighar
Kornalus
Silus Vesuius
Orchendor
Jarl Ulfric Stormcloak
Galmar Stone-Fist
Ghunzul
Dremora Markynaz x2 (from Mehrunes' shrine)
Dremora Caitliff x2 (from Mehrunes' shrine)

--------------------------

I left Whiterun and traveled to the Markarth stables where I waited for 30 days (just sat and waited 24 hours at a time). When I returned to Breezehome after this period, all four Dremoras, Vighar, and Ghunzul were alive and well and ready to fight me. Silus, Kornalus, and Orchendor were all still dead.

So I'm not sure why certain characters were alive and others weren't. What makes it more interesting is that I reloaded from a previous point in the game before I waited for 30 days. I returned after a couple days and the Dremoras were all gone.

So what doe these results mean? No clue.

Can you equip a corpse with whatever armor you want? I welcome any good necromancer advice.

No, you can only equip them with the armor they were already wearing, but you can upgrade and enchant it. You can also in some cases get them to wear gear on slots that were previously not filled, tho that doesn't always work.

My necromancer is a robe wearer, sticks to conjuration, alteration, destruction, restoration and enchanting. I only chose the necromancy perks in conjuration and chose one element in destruction to perk. Also went with a very low HP build so I didn't have to take many restoration perks. Has been a lot of fun to play.

For good Thralls check out Mistwatch keep. The bandits there are stronger then normal bandits and many have steel plate armor. They will continue to level with you also, just kill them and rethrall them. Note the Mistwatch leader will eventually level beyond Dead Thralls max range so you may not want her.

Not ANY armor you want, but with armor that they can spawn with. The second link in my sig shows you how to upgrade and enchant their armor. Apparently you can replace a thrall's armor with different armor than what they originally spawned with, as long as that armor is available from their item table. For instance, you can equip a volkihar vampire with glass armor, even if they spawn with leather or elven, because glass armor is available to them. However, if they spawn with empty armor slots, for instance no gauntlets, they will not equip gauntlets no matter what. It's really a crap shoot though, and you are better off just enchanting the armor they came with. Thralls will always use whatever weapons you give them, and they will use a shield if they are capable of using one. They can also use staves, but magic users will typically only use them if they are low on magicka, warriors and archers will use summoning and offensive staves more readily than magic users which is counter intuitive.

Civil war spoilers:

indeed, and give us a necromancer faction for pure evil playthroughs!

Another strange thing I noticed that I forgot to mention was that when Vighar was alive (after the 30 day wait), he had respawned as a Master Volkihar Vampire wearing leather armor. In addition to that, everyone that was alive had all their original loot (gold, lockpicks, etc.).

I can't really speak as to Vighar and Ghunzul yet, but the Dremoras are scripted to respawn, so in the case where they vanished the refresh timer probably interceded and sent them packing. It might also explain the case where they were alive when you returned, for similar reasons, however that one's not as clear and may require investigation via the CK.

It's just odd why some respawned with full gear and leveled to where I was at and others remained dead. Necromancy is all over the place right now and I just hope that one of the future patches addresses it. It's a shame that they put a new feature into a game that just doesn't work the way it was intended to work...at least I presume that the didn't intend for necromancy to be as inconsistent as it is now.

It would seem that a few perfectly safe characters to use as Dead Thralls are Orchendor, Kornalus, Ulfric, Galmar, Sild the Warlock, and Silus (though he's terrible).

Guys you are talking to the wrong side here.

Fact 1. Skyrim already had bodies you wanted.
Fact 2. People whined about bloated savegames.
Fact 3. Bethesda improved performance by reducing body count.

Conclusion: if you want bodycount back - flame down FPS complainers.

okay thanks.

Another question. Do I have to join the college to gain acess to adept + conjuration spells? if not at what levels are these spells available?

Yes, you have to join the college to get the better spells. The conjuration mage there, Phinis Gestor, is the only one you can get the master and expert spells from.