How many of those good vamps had access to a cure.... 0

In regards to blocking out the Sun, it is magic, they aren't actually removing the Sun. Who is to say that they aren't simply simply blocking just that which harms Vampires. Perhaps the block allows what plants need for photosynthesis to pass through, just like how photosynthesis still occurs on a cloudy day (just to a lesser extent), or maybe its glow provides an alternative (just like plants grown today with artificial light).
Remember it is Elder Scroll magic, the rules as we know them don't apply.

He's talking about curing vampirism(ie you're undead) not the disease that causes it. Once you're a vampire cure disease is useless.

Which is why you talk to any inn keeper and find out that you need to go to Morthal, and get cured by the wizard guy whose name I have forgotten...

Yeah the DB can do this because the game mechanics provide it. But for most vampiress they don't have that luxury.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

I personally find the whole goody "rebel" vampires as cliche, but I'm all for more freedom. However, the vampires in this game are cut from a different cloth. Unless if all vampires are affected by the DLC, this clan in particular must have a stronger relationship with Molag Bal; father of all vampires who's far from good. They have skills and powers not seen in other vampires, along with a portal to another world. This may be one of those "sell your soul to the devil" deal. You probably won't have a choice in being good without the powers.

I'm the same, i like playing as a good vampire like the count of Skingrad in Oblivion, i hope the DLC doesn't force us vampires to be evil.

no no of course they're not evil! dead bodys reanimated that survive on the blood of the living?
just misunderstood,thats all.
leeches,wipe 'em out says i! cheers

I'm assuming that you will probably have to pick a side eventually, but I think that vampire character will be able to be on the Dawnguard side if they prove themselves or something.

Oh yes, wipe out the leeches. Kill the unnaturall. They're evil just because they are at the top of the food chain.

Good and evil are a matter of perspective and intent. They are an illusion. But I think as long as you control your vampirism, you should be able to join dawnguard.. unless they are superhuman and can sense what you are.. but I think they are just normal people that are sworn to hunt vampires.

QFT.

I don't know if any one mentioned this, because I dont have time to read all the posts, but what if they are not really trying to blot oout the sun. This may be a stretch because it in the plot of eso but what if their real plan is to use the elder scrolls to bring nirn into coldharbor. Think about it, at the end of the trailer when we see the sun it doesn't really get blotted out. The sky seems to rip open with some kind of growing portal, and within the portal the sky seems to turn red like "Fire".

"The sky is on fire,' I heard him say as he moved on to the next realm. 'The ground is sludge, but traversable. I see blackened ruins all around me, like a war was fought here in the distant past. The air is freezing. I cast blooms of warmth all around me, but it still feels like daggers of ice stabbing me in all directions." -- The Doors of Oblivion

That is how molag bals realm is described. To me it seems more likely that that was not the sun being blotted out but just nirn being absorbed into molag bals realm. Plus the vampire guy never directly says that they are going to blot out the sun he just says that "the tyranny of the sun shall end"

Even if that is not true and they really are trying to "blot out" the sun I dont think they would be stupid enough to do something that would destroy the ecosystems and cause mass extinctions. If you look at it in the end, the sun is still there just more of a redish black color instead.

I would assume that the Vampires wouldn't want to kill off all the other NPCs because that is a food source to them, hell even werewolves need to eat NPCs

Evil is just ones opinion on something.

What of the dawngaurd ARE vampires...just ones that don't want to see the end of all life under the sun?
This whole "blotting out the sun with the elder scrolls" thing seems an awfull lot like killing the chicken who lays the golden eggs.....just to get at the eggs.

Thats sort of what I am thinking... The dawnguard are actually evil vampires who eat other vampires! Because of doing this they are more powerfull in the day then at night.. So the good vampires are trying to block out the sun so they can destroy the Dawnguard and save vampire kind.

My vampire is already an evil, power hungry bastard. This expansion will be perfect for him.

*sigh*

Can we please not get into this? I don't know how i can prove to you that evil exists (even though there is alot of evidence in history) so there is no point in discussing about whether evil exists or not, or is more then just an opinion.

This topic is about whether a vampire player is forced to work for the vampire faction. Let's just stick it to that.

Good and evil is utterly and completely in the eye of the beholder. To the humans in Skyrim, the things the vampires seem to be planning (remember, only one vampire said it in the trailer, it's possible for nuances to show up in the story) will undoubtedly be evil because it's extremely disadvantageous to them. For the vampires, it could be the key to survival and even true peace for their kind. Also, don't forget humans are prey for vampires, much needed food. It's the same like we eat animal meat and plants, or are you going to deem us evil for eating cows etc.? So, from a vampiric viewpoint, it could be something they must do, thus the ultimate good.
Sure, to us as players it may look evil, but that's because we're humans ourselves and thus identify ourselves most with the humans in the game.

Don't forget "good" and "evil" are ALWAYS subjective terms. In real life too.

Oh, and about the "blocking the sun will kill all the humans and yadda yadda": we've only seen the trailer, with one strong vampire, who knows what the real deal is yet? For all it matters, it's possible blocking the "sun" on Nirn won't kill everything alive. Or the vampires should be really stupid.

*Tuuuuuuuut* As far as I've noticed in Skyrim, wolves attack everything in their vicinity. Unless it's another wolf or a werewolf. Don't get it mixed up with real life.

You, my man, read/watch too much fiction. There is no pure evil and no pure good, alright? Nobody, and I repeat, NOBODY in the world will do something without any gain. What they gain can range from a very simple "thank you", which results in feeling good about oneself for a few minutes, to extra power (in the form of influence over people, money, women, whatever you want). Altruism for example -often categorized in the "good" section- is also a certain way of egoism -often put in the "evil" section-, as helping people means the same as gaining favor from them, and thus results in you feeling good about yourself (i.e. you ego gets a boost) and makings friends a.k.a. gaining influence over people.

1) I disagree on the opinion that animals can't think, but let's leave that discussion for another time.
2) We also choose to follow the easy way to live, otherwise we wouldn't be living at all. It's a survival tactic. Why go for the difficult way of you can get it via the easy way? The only difference is that we live with a lot of humans on limited land, and we as a consequence had to create a civilization with complex rules, only to be able to live together without bashing each other's head in because the other invaded a bit of our turf (= our home). I doubt you'll be able to discern humans from "beasts" in countries at war 'though, especially those with civil war. Skyrim is very meek on that subject, you actually don't see anything from the war unless you actively participate in it. Well, if you would've seen what really goes on in a war in the game, then I doubt they'd be allowed to even sell it.
3) a wolf can't do anything with an iron helmet, so why should it wear it? It's a human tool, specifically made for humans to wear. And the wolf is certainly no Dragonborn either. Besides, wolves do strife for power in real life, but only within the pack (because that's simply how their social structure is). You've got the alpha-male and female from a pack, also known as the leaders. Then, the beta-male and/or female, which stand directly under the alpha. After that, you've got the rest, whose hierarchy can go pretty complex, a hierarchy of wolf A stands above wolf B, who stands above wolf C, who in turn again stands above A, can easily happen! And last, sometimes the omega wolf exists, the one who is the lowest in hierachy and only stays with the pack in order to survive. He or she is the black sheep of the pack 'though. Anyway, about that striving for power: if the leader or at least a higher-up shows himself weak, you can bet on it he/she will get replaced by a lower wolf in no time.


Anyway, I'm terribly going off-topic, am I not? Sorry. Won't happen again.

I hope the Dawnguard vampires are the real Skyrim vampires from the lore. Their abilities sounded quite cool. And maybe we'll get different clans like in Morrowind? So you'll have other options besides Vampire Slayer and Sun Blocking Human Slayer. I'd like to see some new routes to follow besides the obvious ones, that would be neat.

So Palpatine was right then? I don't get it. Palpatine seemed to be an evil man.....you know the whole causing a fake war for his own selfish reasons, wiping out the jedi. That's evil. But if you are correct....then he wasn't evil at all......perhaps just misunderstood in society.

Also remember that scene when Anakin/Vader encountered the jedi younglings and then butchered them? I always thought that scene was to show how evil Anakin had become. And when Obi-wan later told him that "Palpatine is evil" Anakin responds "from my point of view the jedi are evil". Isn't that just another sign of how evil Anakin has become? If he see's the jedi as evil, but not Palpatine and himself? After all, if a man loses all sense of true good and evil, then he could easily commit evil acts and not care because he believes "evil" is just a label and therefore holds no weight.

However if you are correct in that there is no true evil.....then it would be ridclous to call Palpatine and Vader evil, regardless of there actions. But if true evil doesn't exist.....then neither does true good. That means Obi-wan and Luke arn't good people at all.

I don't know man.....i just don't think i can accept your beliefs.....it just doesn't seem right to me.


Though i think we are getting a little to off topic.......

The Vampires are evil. Look in the trailer. They have what appears to be a Shrine of Molag Bal, who is pretty much the most evil of all Daedric Princes.