I agree somewhat with the OP. The restriction is too contrived. It doesn't spring naturally from any limitation in knowledge or ability of the character.

That's what I was trying to say. Well put.

I totally agree. I want to see the falmer statue in the dwemer ruin. But the only way you can get to it is by joining the thieves guild, as far as I can tell.

I would also like to massacre the tg. Stupid unwanted essential tags aside, the idiots are locked behind a freaking door.

Now the dark brotherhood, I get why you can't enter the sanctuaries, to a point.
And all said and done, it's 2 buildings. No big deal.
You can get in by destroying them, if you don't want to join. So theres some loot possibilities.

But the damn tg locks up a dwemer ruin, a falmer statue, the nightingale base, the cistern, and probabely more. It won't even let you massacre them.
WTH! Why can't you see a awesome falmer statue and dwemer ruin?! They have nothing to do with the freaking tg! The statues just a statue, the ruins just a ruin, theres nothing so specific about them that means they have to be locked up!
And the damn snow veil sanctum. it's just a generic dungeon, FFS! Just let the player loot the place if they don't want the pathetic tg quests!

The Saathal thing svcks too.

These places don't have anything special when the quests involved, what the hell is with forcing you to join guilds to see them!

Yeah, that's a shame - that thing is really cool. Sure you may see it in a loading screen, but it's not near the same.

I'm thinking there may be something to do with them in an expansion. I hope so because I only joined them on one character - the other I'd like to destroy them...and their little dog, too!

No, don't really care if you took your meds or not.

Completely agree. Not only is it restricting and immersion-breaking, it gives spoilers too. For example, if I'm wandering around and find a locked/needs a key dungeon, I instantly know it's for a quest and when I go to play that quest, it will be less interesting because I've already been to the location. One of the many problems with the game...

All of these places have to do with the lore of the guild. The Falmer statue at Irkngthand is part of the Theives' Guild because of the Eyes are worth a lot and Mercer Frey is trying to get them. And the Eyes have been a target for the TG since Gallus was Guildmaster.

Snow Veil Sanctum is important to the TG too because it's where Mercer killed Gallus and framed Karliah.

Saarthal is important because that's where the Eye of Magnus is, which is what all of the College of Winterhold quests are based around.


It all comes down to the lore of the dungeon.

QFT. I have no problem with various dungeons being locked due to guild involvement, but I do think that word walls should have been excluded from those locked-to-guild dungeons.

It's just as easy to unbind your character's hands RP-wise as it is to pigeon-toe them. Glass is half-full.

Unless Arngeir or the mysterious "Friend" is guiding you there, the player character would have no knowledge of where certain words are located and so would not be trying to get into certain dungeons.

I found the Sky Haven Temple before I heard about it...it was if there was an invisible force field preventing me from accessing it. Magic? No...most likely an invisible blocking object coded by the devs.

Paarthurnax popped an Invisibility Potion and took a nap.

I was quite irritated when I was forced to the thieves guild, but then something came up. Instead of [censored]ing about it I include it with my RP of having to do something that I didn't like. For my none mage retired character was totally against using the use of magic, and was against joining the college of winterhold. After a while my character soon realize that magic wasn't that bad as he thought it was, especially the restoration magic that came to very good use during battles, it also started saving him money from having to buy health potions. He realize that you can take someones weapons away thinking that their unarmed, but in fact if you use your mind... it becomes a weapon it self, especially during prison situations. He started to appreciate the use of magic since then. He went from hating magic to loving it.

Same with the thieves guild. He was against stealing but realize how important the guild is when it comes down to business and obtaining information of others, VERY important during war times.

As far as the Dark Brotherhood goes are equally important as their specialties are stealth, and sneaking... again important for war times. Nothing like sneaking up to the enemies base and killing them off with a dagger in the back.

I admit it that my character (my current mage one) is taking an advantage of his contacts and will use it for the future.

The only thing that I have a problem with is having to become a stupid nightingales just to defeat that little piss ant Mercer frey. Come on man I'm the [censored] dragonborn who defeated Alduin, THE WORLD EATER! Do I need some deadric prince powers to help me defeat some theif? No I don't.

If they're going to Quest Lock dungeons, at least do it right. Blackreach Key Items (The attunment Sphere) was a good example of that. The Dragon Claws could have also served as a not-so-jarring way to "Quest Lock" a dungeon.

But "This door requires a key, even though you picked 1,572 locks in the game already, this one's special in a nondescript way" just kind of... svcks.

During my first play through I stumbled upon the Dwemer ruin Avanchnzel, and spent a good 30-45 minutes searching out where it's hidden entrance might be. I had no way of knowing at the time, that a quest , begun at some unknown location, would suddenly make a cave entrance materialize where a solid mountainside was before. I found this both cheap, and lazy as a method of game implementation. It's one thing to come to a locked door. It's another to have no door, and then provide one out of nowhere, especially with no explanation. Hey, I was here before, and that entrance did not exist! If one can magically appear out of the blue, then I think some story writing needs to occur which justifies/explains it. Otherwise why not just have us keep visiting the jarl , get a quest, and fast travel to the necessary location. NO sense in just hiking around, because you can't believe what you see.

There was a similar situation in Dustmen's cairn as well. If you wander into it there is no doorway beyond the first cavern room. Initiate a companion quest, and voila, that blank wall now has a gaping portal through it.??? Shouldn't someone have to blast it with a magic spell or strike it with a special staff ,pickaxe, or hammer???

The larger ruins should not be totally locked up from the get go. Oblivion handled this pretty well, by having a magical door deep inside that required a special key , that was quest related. Why not a dungeon, that's explorable from the onset, yet offers even more depth of discovery, once that special connection is located. I'm all for earning my advancement within the game, just don't make it so simple that, either you go all the way, or you can't go at all. Shallow approaches make shallow games.

My main concern is that while many dungeons are quest-locked, many aren't. There are many dungeons with quest related items that can lead to broken quests if the items are looted or certain npcs are killed prematurely. Why lock some quest dungeons, but leave others unlocked, or leave quest related items where people can loot them before doing the quest?

In this case, I wish that all quest related dungeons, items and npcs were inaccessible to avoid broken quests.

Right. Because the disarm shout has everything to do with being a thief and a dragonborn. Too bad if you RP as a thief while not being a dragonborn, the useless shout will be yours anyway. Great reward.

While I do agree getting shouts should involve overcoming obstacles which preferably are connected to the world in general, it still sounds weird to be forced to progress so far into a quest line your character shouldn't really get involved with if he doesn't want to. Shouts still are part of the dragonborn, not of the guildmaster or even a thief. It just doesn't make any sense if you want to count it as a quest-specific reward in the game, and not as an accidental discovery in your RP setting.

You're right, but only to a certain degree. You're making it seem like getting into the Thieves' Guild is part of being a dragonborn. The Thieves' Guild is only another part of Skyrim, and not a stepping stone to becoming a dragonborn. They're two different worlds altogether.

Doesn't matter. It's not like they own all those places (with maybe exception of Saarthal for the College since they're excavating it). Beth could at least let us visit the ruins without initiating the quests and without being able to take anything significant. You couldn't know the eyes of the Falmer statue are highly valuable if you never even heard of them, so you wouldn't take them out of their sockets. Heck, even if you RP a character who has an eye for valuable things, they could still make it possible for only Thieves' Guild member to take them out with a specially designed tool or something.

Errh ... NO. I like my exploration, and if I discover one ruin after the other which is quest locked, I'd toss the game in the deepest reaches of the Ocean (yes, the Mariana Trench, so James Cameron can film it). I don't care anymore if quests get broken over it, I enter them and I'll see whatever happens.

I am going through Forbidden Legend and on my last dungeon, I need access to Saarthal. This is just stupid.

Personally, I think it'd be a little weird if all Nord Ruins that are part of guild quests lacked Word Walls. Places like Saarthal are incredibly important places to Nords, and I can't imagine the ancient Nords wouldn't have erected Word Walls in such a place, considering the Word Walls are pretty much tombstones.

You can't have a Big Mac if you go to Burger King if you know what I mean. That shout is a reward, I don't see anything wrong with what Bethesda has done.

Why not placing it in the open, then? North of Ysgrammor tomb there's a word wall that can be reached either via a comfortable path from a door at the end of the dungeon or by climbing via a step slope. This way, even if the tomb is locked and can be accessed only using Ysgrammor axe (companion related quest) you are not forced to join the companion to learn a new shout.

I agree with the point re: Saarthal. I have a theif who does NO magic, but there is "something" in Saarthal I want. There is a quest to get it, but I AM forced to join the College to get in. That's just not right.

Think of it as a con. You're joining the College under the guise of wanting to expand your knowledge of magic, but in reality you're just after the artifacts.

Yes, I can roleplay it, and that's a very good way to look at it.

I actually found locked dungeons a lot more in OB.

I also hate that to find all the stones or all the shouts, you basically have to have your character join and do everything. Well as a role-player I never would play one character that does everything. All my characters are way too focused to be a rogue, and an assassin, and a warrior, and a mage, etc.

But, to be honest, I haven't really put much thought into it. To me it's kind of like 'Catching all the Pokemon', you know it can be done, but it's no where near worth the effort.