The debate about whether you're "forced" to join certain guilds to get certain things is a hot one. Some say there is a choice, you simply have to not do it. I say that's a BS choice. I don't want to join the Thieve's Guild, but there's a shout I want that's in a dungeon that's quest-locked. Because I'm not in the TG. Some will say just join and play until you get to that dungeon.

I say why should I even have to? Why is my immersion and playstyle broken just because devs had to cut corners to meet their deadline? My character is too busy worrying about dragon killing to stop and help Brenjolf frame someome for robbery, then go through his stupid little trial of making it through the Ratway (hardly spoilers, the game holds your hand on how to join the TG to such a degree that it's pathetic).

Things like this are just another example of the lack of options in this game. Why could there not have simply been another way to get to the Word Walls located within quest-locked dungeons? They could have been in their own chambers, along with applicable bosses, as to preserve the contents of other parts of the dungeons so no other parameters are messed with that would screw with the dungeon's assigned guild quest. Wouldn't have been that hard. For now I'm going to have to cheat my shout. Lucky I'm on PC.

Too bad for the console players who truly have no choice but to play on the rails this iteration of TES has set for them...

This is Beth's vision and I support it. Thank you Beth.

What dungeon are you referring to?

Let's take Saarthal for instance. It's being excavated by the College of Winterhold ... HOW DARE BETH NOT LET ME EXPLORE IT WITHOUT JOINING A GUILD!
And Snow Veil Sanctum ..l the place is locked down tight by someone ... HOW DARE BETH NOT LET ME EXPLORE IT ARRGGHHH!

If they let you go wherever you want, I bet you'd be the first person t complain when you break a quest. I love the way Bethesda handled quest dungeons. Well done, Bethesda!

This.
Also the OP might like to play Oblivion, where he/she will note that it also has locked areas.
Additionally a review of the phrase "on rails" may be in order here...

Well, I say your play style is clearly flawed. You want a shout that can only be had by doing a certain thing? Tough. That's the way it goes. If you want the shout then you have to do what is necessary to get it. Think of it this way, if you want to get to the top of a mountain would you expect to get there without climbing the mountain?

You can't have that shout unless you do what is necessary to get it. Your play style is flawed because you do not take this into account.

I agree and also with Saarthal as well. I need a piece of a Necklace which I cannot get without joining the Mages guild on my Archer. I did managed to find the dungeon to get rid of the other pieces of the amulet on accident so I didn't have these annoying pieces but it's still annoying I cannot complete the quest.

I also hated when I stole items from people that turned out to be quest items that I didn't know what were for haha. Now I have random clogs in my inventory for quest items. They definitely need to make an inventory slot for Quest Items only. That way my inventory doesn't have these random items filling my inventory.

And people say there are no consequences to your choices in this game....

You can get two of the three levels of this shout without joining the Thieves

Exactly.

Either people are complaining about not being restricted, or they're complaining about too many restrictions.

Yea would be better if you could. It really should not matter if the College of Winterhold is excavating the place, as if that was to stop a Dragon born from going there and doing some snooping on he's own. It's an artificial limitation likely due to keeping things simple as they would have to do extra coding if you did decide to go back there for the Mage quest line.
Personaly I did all the quests so it was no bother, but I can see how this artificial wall could be annoying. Don't listen to the fan boys with their CAPS on, your right.

I'd go with this being the answer. Because I know some that aren't locked and you can easily break quests in them.

DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MY CAPS?!
Let's look at this from a RP perspective. I RP. What character needs to know all three words to all shouts and needs to explore every last dungeon but never join x guild? The build that springs to mind is 'god', which sort of defies the purpose of RP and self-imposed restrictions.

Quest-locked dungeons in and of themselves shouldn't be a problem. It's an understandable limitation as otherwise those dungeon would require a lot more effort from the developers.

But I agree that hiding word walls in quest-locked dungeons really was a crappy design decision.

Akruzharl are you referring to the Golden amulet quest?

I've broken at least 30+ quests, and including the main quest and you don't see me complaining about it.

What dungeon are you referring to OP?

Well, with this anology you're implying that one's own laziness (not wanting to climb a mountain) is preventing him/her from reaching the top. In this instance RPing would prevent him/her from getting the word not his/her own laziness.

I don't mind quest-locked dungeons, but since the MQ is about being Dragonborn the Dragonborn should have access to all words.

Edit:
I'm pretty sure he's referring to Snow Veil Sanctum - Disarm shout.

The real translation:

Putting shouts in GUILD quest locked dungeons is BS.

I can agree with that...

The words locked away in quest related dungeons are in essence rewards for completing those quests. If you choose to exclude yourself from content in the game you have no right to complain you can't reap the rewards you denied yourself.

Zing

No, I'm not talking about laziness. But I suppose I can see how my anology can be interpreted that way. No, I was just trying to point out that the OP wants a certain shout without doing the prerequisite task(s) to get the shout. It has nothing to do with being lazy. The play style of the OP is to circumvent the necessary milestones in order to get the reward. And that kind of play style is, in my opinion, flawed.

As for the dragonborn having access to all shouts, well, I disagree. Here's why. To meet Paarthurnax you need to have a specific shout. There are hurdles and quests the dragonborn must jump through to get that shout. This is the same as with many shouts in the game. You should not have access to all shouts without these prerequisites. If you could have any shout at the beginning of the game you could just go up to Paarthurnax right away. That would not make any sense.

For certain things to happen there are always going to be prerequisites that need to be met. You need to crawl before you can walk, you need to walk before you can run.

The way I see it, debate over "consequence" stems from the lack of risk in this game (consequences that have a permanent and obvious effect the game world) compared to the previous titles. Choosing not to be a part of a guild doesn't really quilify in my opinion. The quests you do as a part of a guild have NO game-changing effects at all save for a few throwaway lines. Killing the Emperor being the most stand-out event...

In that there's really no event made of it after it's done. Or am I missing something because I haven't finished the MQ? Becase I'll tell ya, it's funny how when I rob a house at night with 100% sneak the occupants still know I did it and send thugs after me, yet when I kill the Emperor and it's KNOWN my character was in the DB and previously attempted to kill him no one gets sent after me. It's like no one even cared...

It's annoyance, I'll grant that. But the fact is there are so many other things you can do.

But really, if you want the Shout so badly, then join the given guild and get to it. The only difference is some more time invested. For example, to go to Saarthal you have to join the college and then talk to Tolfdir. Then off you go. It's about a 10-15 minute real-time diversion and you have what you want. And when playing Skyrim, 10-15 minutes of real time is nothing.

It does clog up the quest menu, which is annoying but not something worth getting worked up over.

In terms of quests broken by entering a dungeon unwittingly, that's a different matter altogether.

You are the hero of legend who will/must save the world before it's too late. But first, go join a bunch of theives and help them reclaim their place as the baddest bunch of thugs around. Then go join a bunch of murderers and help them earn the respect and fear of Nirn again. Only then will you truly be ready to save the world.

Yep. Makes perfect sense.

Oh and going into a dozen or so dungeons to get every word for every shout despite the fact most of them serve no purpose for fighting dragons makes more sense?

Some people don't want to ever do certain questlines like TG and DB (like I'll never do Namira's or Boethiah's quests). I can see certain rewards not being given to us for not doing certain questlines (Nightingale Sword, Shrouded Armor, et al), but the shouts, being central to our "destiny", should be available via the MQ.

I'm not saying we should get all from day 1. Make us earn them, but make them available.

Most of the shouts aren't central to our destiny its just something we can do like cast the flames spell. The ability to absorb dragon souls and use dragonrend are central to our destiny. Everything else is either gravy or a requirement to get dragonrend.