I like your first idea the best. I think it's fantastic, actually. It wouldn't impose any barriers and restrictions in the end game, but it would give you a much harder time trying to master the Sneak skill with Orc than, let's say, Khajiit. I'd do this with sixes as well. A female should have much harder time with two handed weapons than male. Also, more race specific dialogue. Second idea is good too, don't like the third.

I would like that as well, different body builds and how they effect gameplay would be great for racial diversity.

I had a discussion with another forumite a day or two ago.

Explain Tiger Woods using those ^ mechanics. You can't.

I rightly agree with the OP, races feel very diminished and choices don't feel like they have any weight behind them. The racial choice is pretty much just cosmetic, it's like taking Ryu from Street Fighter and just trying to decide if you want him in his normal white gi, his black gi, or the green gi. Ryu can do pretty much everything rather well, meaning your character can do anything, at the start of the game all you're doing is picking your gi color.

It's not what an RPG is supposed to play like... at all. Can an Orc be an amazing Assassin or Mage? Sure. But they should have to spend double or triple the time it takes a Cat or a High Elf, and the Orc should never be completely on the same level.

How to answer this without sounding condescending.... OK, Tiger describes himself to be of "Cablinasian" ethnicity; a mixture of caucasian, black, native american and asian. Which of these races has a skill cap in golf? To the best of my knowledge golf requires balance, focus, patience, touch and many other traits to master, but none of these traits are absent from his ethnic background. He actually has a vast genetic pool to pull from making his ability at golf understandable, additionally his father had him grinding out levels since he was 2, how could he not be at 100 by now. Did the sarcasm come through?

Not really, no. Good job on hiding it until the very last second. What the [censored] is people's problem tonight?

Let me get this right: You ask for people's comment, and when they offer it, you jump down their throat.

Jesus. Not even going to bother responding.

I completely agree with you OP. Save for point 3. Sure an Orc should have an easier time wielding that battle ax, but if a Khajiit practiced all his life he should be able to be as skillful as the Orc. Although the Orc should still be better, but because he's stronger. They should bring back stats, and then make the stat differences affect the maximum you can get in that stat. That way both the Orc and Khajiit can be as skillful in the battle ax with each other, but the Orc will still be better because he's sitting at (for example) 120 str instead of the 100 str that the Khajiit is maxed at.


Umm what min/max crowd? This is a single player game. Are people going to go over to your house and force you to make a certain build?


The same reason people played Altmer in previous titles even though they knew they'd fight mages. It's call roleplaying, I know such a crazy idea for a TES game.

Moral of the story, Tiger Woods is just a Level 1000 Red Mage.




The above. Seriously people, look at some of the things you're using as a defense against this.

"Why would anyone want to play X race when they have X weakness."

It's an RPG. Why does ever single character have to be mary sued?

@thebaer

Sorry man, just didn't see how Tiger Woods golf prowess made your point about racial caps. If you found it overly harsh, that wasn't my intent. Sorry.


On to the topic It seems that there are two groups,

1) Want to be able to do anything with any race.

2) See diversity in races (including disadvantages) as an opportunity to get more roleplay value from a character.

And that is the biggest argument going on the forums, if Skyrim has been watered down and not a true RPG

The problem is, as I see it, the people on the "do anything" side seem to not understand that the people on the "restriction" side are not actually saying "do anything" can't happen, it should just be harder to do and perhaps not do as well.

Again, as it stands, you're just picking colors for your jack of all trades character, you aren't making a character with any actual depth.

Well, I could see the advantage of a race-specific perk tree. That could be interesting. Quite possibly hellishly difficult to balance and would potentially have other gameplay issues though, so probably not worth it.

I do wholeheartedly agree that more ways to define your personality would be good. Including a better reputation system. Right now, as I understand it, you have reputations with people that you change by direct interaction and reputation with groups that change by direct interaction with that group. These are simple linear measures that only go up or down. It would be better, imho, if you had a global rep people could draw on (at least once you get famous enough) as well as the more direct reps. In addition, you could have a spectrum of reps within a group. If you go around being stealing, then you'll get a rep for things disappearing after you were around (and a more explicit rep if you get caught in the act). Quests could build various reps as well, so that if you are generous and don't ask for a reward often, then you get a reputation for that (which could have good and bad consequences). All these would influence what people say to you and how they react to you from simple dialogue options to even whether a person might run up to you with a problem (among other things). Obviously this is a bit beyond the scope of Skyrim, but it is something I'd like to see in a future TES game. It could modify the Radiant AI by adjusting how the NPC decides to approach the player with a problem.

WRT Race, I could see something like this having racial stereotypes built in.

While the current races aren't perfect, I think major changes to how skills level up or the like is not the way to handle racial differences.

Btw, fur wouldn't make you more susceptible to fire damage, but rather increase the risk of catching fire as would robes (though probably not additively). Then again, a Kajit in full plate is going to be rather hard to catch on fire like that, so this seems like a pretty small detail. Anyhow, making them take more fire damage would be more immersion-breaking than anything else. It just doesn't make a lot of sense for most characters most of the time, and makes even less sense when you consider they hail from a region that is desert and/or sub-tropical.

I think while the current racial abilities could use more balance, there's not much of a reason to change how skills work. Consider races in real life, studies show that intelligence and capability doesn't differ among them when you take socioeconomic status into account (for example poor kids tend to do worse in school than the more privileged and it isn't because of any inherent (dis)ability). I don't see any reason to think the skill modifiers aren't in the same vein. It isn't that Khajit are always more sneaky than Bretans, but rather their culture tends to teach/value sneakiness more. The races encourage particular skill focusing/"classes" enough as it is, and there's no reason that should be increased.

What Jack-of-all-trades character? You can't feasibly make such a character in Skyrim. You start off being capable of doing great at anything, but you can't do great at EVERYTHING. Certainly most people don't make a jack of all trades where they can do everything ok, and if they did it wouldn't turn out well I'd think.

I don't race should play a big role in the game. If I want to be an orc thief or an Altmer 2 handed warrior or something I don't think the game should stop me.

I would love to have some race-specific perks.

Also, let's make Khajiit run a little bit faster. Like, 10% at least. Come on, they are cats.

It's a Jack of All Trades in the sense that no matter what race you pick you can be good at anything.

I prefer to be able to make an altmer tank.

Thanks.

That's not what "jack of all trades" means. What you are talking about is more of a Tabula Rasa which is quite different.

Exactly. It's fun to go against the grain even when there are disadvantages. I made an Elven monk once in Neverwinter Nights. Sure he didn't do as much damage as a Human monk would've and Elves are better suited to be mages, but it was fun!


Yeah but the races in Tamriel are actually different races though. There is only one race of humans on earth, the human race.


They are though. They're cats man. This isn't just a difference in the amount of melanin in the skin. One is a cat, the other is an ape.


No one is trying to stop you.

i would like to see racial modifiers as far as how fast certain skills gain levels. for example, nords and orcs could become just as good at magic as an altmer or breton, it would just take them longer to get there and vice versa the altmer and bretons would have to swing their weapons more times to become just as good as a nord or orc.

i would like to see some consistency for example every single khajit is barred from entering a city...........except yours. that is just stupid. either they should not have bothered implementing that or they should make it so that you are also barred from the cities at least until you are sufficiently famous and the nords grudgingly let you in.

i would like to see some differences in how they move especially if you have ever played aliens vs predator games. the aliens were very fast and could climb and just and were a counterbalance to the slower moving predators who were walking tanks. if i play an argonian i should be able to swim a bit faster than a humanoid or khajit and if im a khajit it would make sense that i could jump a bit higher but since im based on a cat i woudl have a bit less stamina than the other races.

Jack of All Trades, good at everything, master of none. Your character in Skyrim, when you initially (and even further down the road) make them can be good at everything but masterful at nothing. But perhaps JoaT was the wrong wording, however the point remains that it does take away the weight of choice.

In my opinion, different races will only get more different if attributes are brought back. For instance, Khajiit are faster, Bosmer are more agile, Bretons have more willpower, Altmer are smarter, Orcs are tougher, Nords are stronger, Imperials are more charismatic, etc. But, to do this, Attributes need to matter. My suggestion is a Fallout-esque way of doing Attributes, by having them chosen at the very beginning, and only improved via perks or perhaps NPC-training. Though, for maximum benefit, they should still be on a scale of 1-100, not 1-10.

However, I think that more options to distinguish the personality of our characters (like in New Vegas) are much more of a neccesity , and thus that problem needs to be addressed before races should be worked on. Hopefully, DLC will improve personality options in conversations, and then races can be addressed in the next game.

I think racial bonuses to abilities should return(didn't even notice they were gone) but that's it. It has a very miniscule impact on the gameplay but adds a nice lore flavor.

There's not much lore evidence that they are significantly different in the way some people here are claiming.


What does that have to do with anything? There's no particular reason to think anthropomorphic cats have some special advantage in sneaking. Sure, wild cats tend to sneak (some more than others), but this is true of ALL predators, including humans. Heck a lot of prey sneaks too. There's nothing special about cats here -- heck, cats are far from the most sneaky creatures in the animal kingdom.

Oh, and to add to my point, lore has it that sneaking IS important to the Khajit. It's part of their culture. That explains the sneak bonus quite well.

Racial choices have weight. They have a huge impact on how you look and an impact on gameplay. There's no reason the latter impact needs to be large, and some against it, since if you don't like the consequences of your race you'll have to start over. I really like how the current system let's people choose how to play in the game as they learn the mechanics and try something new, rather than having significant consequences for all future gameplay before the game even really starts.