After many hours and characters I have realized that almost all races play somewhat the same. A Redguard and a Argonian played with the same archetype, by level 20-25 will be almost the same character. All skills will slowly creep closer together as more exp. is needed to increase levels. So in the end beyond the visual differences and some minor NPC comments the distinction is 50% resist poison vs disease, health regeneration vs stamina regeneration (once a day) and water breathing. For a game that wants limitless possibilities of play style, that lacks uniqueness. This is the same for all races, the plus +10 or +5 to a starting skill is totally irrelevant within 2 hours of play and the other "powers" can be fixed with a simple potion, spell or are limited to once a day.

Do others find this lack of diversity between races an issue?

I do, plus some ideas for mods or future games.

1) All Skills start at 15 for all races. Each race has bonuses to specific skills (similar to the effect of Mage/Warrior/.... Stones) This way the starting point would be the same, but skills that fell into that races wheelhouse would increase much faster throughout all levels

2) Race specific perks or upgrades to current perks. A Dark elf may have a perk above the intense flames perk that gives a further bonus to fire damage. A Redguard may have a further stamina deduction from the fighting stance perk. A Breton with the mage armor perk could have it double, triple and then quadruple the bonus (instead of 2, 2.5,3). Obviously the options are limitless, and this would give races some real distinctions.

3) Skill caps for some races. Should a Khajiit be able to be as proficient in heavy armor or two handed as an Orc. The best battle ax wielding Orc should be better than the best battle ax wielding Khajiit. Similarly that Khajiit should be better at sneaking than the Orc. I understand we live in a PC world, but this is fantasy and not everyone needs to be equal.

Lastly, and this could not be done until a future ES game, but there is a more fung shui to accomplish racial diversity, but also keeping the theme Bethesda started with Skyrim. Bring back attributes, but don't allow the player to choose what to advance. Base them in the skills, when you advance destruction gain EX in intelligence, Heavy armor gain some EX in Constitution. Run the attributes just like the skills, as you use skills you will move up the corresponding attribute. Multiple skills can be attached to the same attribute, the more skills the lower the EX. The twist is that they start with the base level for the race. If an Orc starts with a 50 strength and a Bosmer starts at 30 they both need the same amount of EX to move up 1 point. So if both characters use the exact same skills they will always be 20 points apart. Some perks could also have a attribute minimum as well.

I don't believe that this would make any race unable to work in ways not specifically suited to the race, it would just make them more individual and that is what people want, a character that is memorable.

Alright, thanks for reading.

bump
anyone?

I agree with a lot of what you've said, save for your third bullet. Race-specific level caps would raise hell. I think another avenue that should be considered is the reintroduction of racial weakness. An example would be the Altmer from previous ES title. They got a boost to magicka but were also had a weakness to it. This would make each race more unique.

Disadvantages, weaknesses or skill caps all would flesh out the races, making some battles hard for some races. Khajiits have fur, increase the damage from fire. It would be logical and make role-playing that race more fun (plus after dragon battles Khajiits could smolder for a bit).

Nope don't agree with what the OP said, if we go by the book then Khajitt players and Dark Elf Players wouldn't even be able to complete the game due to the Nords not liking them and that to me is lost options. Also not every player is going to look the same at level 25, one player could have two skills that are highly focused, another could be 6 skills that are highly focused.

Personally, I like it as it is now. The choice of what race to play is just that.. a personal choice. Sure, some races are better for certain roles, but any race can take on any role and be successful at it. That is how it should be. Otherwise the min/max crowd sets in and there would be fewer reasonable choices. Why would anyone want to play a Khajiit if they take extra damage from fire, knowing they are going to be facing fire breathing dragons all the time?

You mean like right now, where Breton is the best choice, due to having the best racial?

I agree with your first two points OP, but I strongly disagree with your third one. I think an Orc that can raise the Two-Handed skill faster than a Khajiit by default is enough of a difference between the two races (at least concerning skills). I understand why you make your third point, but I don't think there should be skill caps based on race. If it was like Oblivion, where you pick major and minor skills, then a skill cap of 85 (just throwing that number out there) on all minor skills makes sense. Players could actively choose their play-style, and the race they find most appealing wouldn't interfere in any way.

Yes I would like to see much more difference as I like to create characters and play the same content again, more difference would be welcome.

You could make the difference things that effect the feel of the game rather than the play so much. Like being better at intimidate or shopping, minor skills or having more of some kinds of things happen to the character. You could be real subtle about it.

I like being able to play orc thieves and breton warriors.

In other words: no.

You mean like right now, where Breton is the best choice, due to having the best racial?

Yeah like that, except 10 times worse.

Why would an Orc that maxed sneak at 85 or 90 become unplayable? Still a viable build, Orcs just are not as sneaky as Khajiit. It is how they are described in the lore.

Skyrim doesn't need more ways to build a character, it needs more ways for you to define your characters personality.

I would much rather have a race specific dialogue option every so often than a race specific perk.

I agree with this, but if I had to go based on the OP I would say I agree, but not on point 3. Maybe instead of some skills raising faster they merely raise slower? That way an Orc can become a master assassin, it just takes him longer to develop his stealth skills.

I've always been in favour of race based and class based caps on attributes and skills.

Anything that makes you feel that a race is actually unique would be great. This is good idea, a penalty to some skills based on race. For the people who want to grind every skill to 100 it can still be done and for others it would make races have some distinctions.

I agree with all the OP's ideas, and as for the third bullet I have a slight revamp that might please some players more than skill-capping below 100:

Skill-capping is still in play. However, skills can level above 100, up to 150 or 175 or 200. Races would have racial preferences in skills which only allow certain skills to be raised above 100 (i.e. Argonian raise sneak and pickpocket, Breton raise conjuration and destruction, etc) to give racial choice more weight in decision-making. All races can still reach 100 and thus attain all the normal perks, but some races can go above 100 and pick race-specific perks (i.e. Argonians who go up to 175 in the pickpocket tree get a perk which allows them to use the Hist to render themselves invisible for extended periods of time, but lowers their health significantly) to help give more weight in choosing races. A Breton warrior can still pick all the two-handed perks, but he'll never be as strong as an Orc or Nord warrior, both of whom have their own race-specific perks. This would not only help distinguish races from each other in terms of preferred class, but would also help distance similar races (i.e. High Elf and Breton; Orc and Nord) from each other with different race-specific perks.

1. Interesting, but I prefer starting out with a bit extra.

2. I'm indifferent.

3. Totally against it. I should be able to be whatever I want, no matter what race I am. If I want to be a magic wielding Nord I should be able to max out all the magic skills.

Yes, but just because you want to be something doesn't mean that will work out. Hell, if I wanted to assist the Thalmor, could I do that? Yes, but the Thalmor will still try to kill me.

You're someone who can get things done. I like that.

I agree with your first two points, not sure about the third. But specific perks is a must IMO. I'm surprised there aren't.

Genetic advantages like seeing better during dark, or have a better immune system are the only attributes that should vary among races. But the "Practice Makes Perfect" idiom should continue to apply to all races.

So if a Nord or Orc has a genetic advantage, like being physically stronger than other races(Arg/Bos/Khaj) would that not affect how fast they become proficient at skills like 2 handed weapons and heavy armor? Everything does not have to always be equal, not everyone needs to get a trophy, some races can be better at some things.

This. Genetics have seen fit to create several intelligent races, and therefore these races must be different from each other. Otherwise, why have separate races at all?

I agree we need more diverse racial stats and abilities.

You should still be able to make every race whatever you want them to be and it should be viable. Like an orc mage or an Altmer warrior.

It should just be a little more difficult to make an Orc mage or an Almer warrior.

I'd like racial bonuses in an exponential growth skill system that doesn't take you "automatically" to 100, but still caps at 100. If you pick a race with magical bonuses, you'll start with i.e. +15 bonus. All races skill up 50 points with the same easiness given the same circumstances. Except a magically skilled character will be at 65 points instead. With exponential growth, a magically skilled race will still have to grind like hell to reach 100, while a non magical race would have beyond hope of getting there. Unless spending enchants or potions to reach those levels. For the magical race, these extras doesn't do much good at higher levels anyway due to the 100 cap. The limit is the same, the work to get there different, and the ease of play at the top benefits the skilled race more than the unskilled race.

And I'd really like to see some Daggerfall traits brought back, but without the known obvious exploits. Again, they removed it to fix the problems, rather than fix it and make it even better. It added so much fun to my characters.

Would be nice to see a weapon's hit radius affected by the reach of the character. Orcs and Altmer would probably have the longest hit radius.