I don't think any gamer is happy with an unfinished product but you have to be realistic with some games (most notably MMO's) that publishers simply can't wait till the game is a '100% perfect'. In many cases that is not even achieved after years of patching.

But yeah for consoles, the absence of the ironically named console function should definitely be reason for higher game standards since players can't fix anything themselves.


As for your sentiment: the guy from ZeroPunctuation summed the idea up quite nicely:

[img]http://i39.tinypic.com/fc2yww.png[/img]


To be honest though, I can't fully disagree with the picture.

Coming to the forum and going Internet Warrior on Bethesda will not solve your problem. Mods will. We are not disputing that Bethesda is not in the wrong, but sometimes when the law is slow, you got to do it yourself and bring out the shotgun.

Well, if you think you can design a game better then Bethesda, Go for it, Id love to see the results of that! I think Skyrim is amazing, no matter what.

I'm not arguing that, but I can't use mods haha. I had oblivion on console and PC, but skyrim is just on Xbox because it doesn't run well on my PC. I just get frustrated. I over react a bit, I know, but I think my argument is still valid.

Oh and in response to the post before the one I quoted, I'm perfectly fine with MMOs not being perfect at launch, because those get regularly patched by the developers because we pay them enough money to do so, but singleplayer games don't have that luxury, so they need to be more careful.

Well, They will be fixed after creation kit is released, So dont get your panties in a bunch, unless you were dumb enough to get a Bethesda game for console, Then you deserve what you get.

Haha not everyone can afford a gaming PC, friend. And please don't call me dumb. We don't need to start trading insults here. That's just immature. And I'm sorry if people are getting frustrated with me, especially the person who thinks I'm just hating on Skyrim. I think Skyrim is amazing too, but things like this just frustrate me. If you disagree, then that's a good thing! That means you can go and enjoy the game even more than I can! I'm just voicing my, admittedly angry, opinion because I want this series to improve even further.

Harsh but there is some truth in that. Bethesda is known for releasing games that are either buggy at release or at the very least rely heavily on mods to make the game experience better.

Don't get me wrong; I think you have a valid reason to complain though.

Im not on a gaming PC, Im on an Acer Aspire laptop and I run the game fine. Im not flaming consoles, I have a 360, But Bethesda games are KNOWN for their bugs & Modding communities, both are better on PC, I run at 15 FPS average, which isnt that good, but its not horrible, the game is still 100% playable and I enjoy it.

See, on my computer oblivion had to be on the lowest settings and it still had a below average framerate. I don't think it makes sense to force us to trade decent graphics and framerate for a game that I can bandage with mods. If you're ok with that then that's ok, but it's a business practice I disagree with. If I just have to "deal with it" to play this game then maybe I need to stop spending my money on this series alltogether, which is sad since I grew up on Bethesda games.

Well, for me, I enjoy mods, so if I had it for console, I would get bored with it in days, Cant spawn NPCs just to watch them fight if I get bored, and ive tried it for 360, I liked it, but, its just missing mods.

You're correct, which is why I may buy it for pc once the price drops, but we're not talking about fun stuff you can do with mods. We're talking about having to use mods to fix things the developers wont, which is unacceptable, to me at least, and then alienating console gamers because they have no way of recieving these fixes. I'm not some console really devoted fan either. It also bothers me how the PC game is basically just a port of the consoles, and that in many ways they neglect pc users. but that's a different argument for a different time.

Eidt: odd for some reason when I type "fan boy" it changes it to "really devoted fan". Whatever. I think you know what I mean haha.

THIS!

I swear they better not just drop a giant rock on all of Skyrim like they did to Morrowind! Complete with a book that says things like "Prayers to the Dovahkiin went unanswered".

I will be so pissed off if the Dovahkiin takes a vacation to Akaviir like the Nerevarine. DO NOT do this, Bethesda.

....So what your saying is that even if a person paid just the same amount as you for a broken shallow boring unfinished game I deserve What I get? ever hear of the thing that computers cost a quite a bit of money and most people dont have enough money to buy a computer that can handle skyrim so instead they buy an xbox/ps3 so they can enjoy games without paying a great deal of money Nice attitude.

Psychotrip is right. A cup of tea, maybe some yoga. You'll feel better.

Look on the bright side. You can use the Legates as sparring partners to level up your weapon and armor skills.

The way I took out my frustration on unkillable NPCs I didn't like (army captains or otherwise) was to continuously Shout at them with fully charged Unrelenting Force until they fell off a cliff or into the sea or down a hole where they could never come back from. Out of sight, of mind.

I totally agree alot people can't alway afford a powerhouse computer to play game like this so some of us get it for either PS3 like me or 360 there nothing wrong about getting it on one of the consoles.

Yes. It is discouraging and sad. I'm on Xbox so exploits and glitches are all I got.

What the MODs won't fix is the sense of unfinished and rushed job that the whole Civil War has.

Rewards for this quest line is non-existent, in case of imperials you don't even get some nice armor, a piece of land or house (The roman legion was the first to give soldiers not only a regular pay but also land when they retired or at the end of a great campaign). You're given a brief thank you speech and everybody else in the world behaves like nothing has happened (including the bards singing "down with Ulfric/the empire" in occupied lands!).

There's literally no excuse for any hostile NPC to be unkillable. None. It's a little insane that you can attack and piss off unkillables, but when they spawn hostile, that's really insane.

No one in the game should be essential
If I want them dead, I want them dead and they should die, not kneel down just to get up and chase me for 30mins across the map.

I can live with my consequences and failed quests if you'd just let me kill people

I've read three or four threads on this in the past few weeks... all with entirely personal and wholly unsearchable topic tags... sigh...

I'm not sure exactly what you were expecting and I did see in your previous thread that you were warned and that this nerdrage attack of yours was something you built up to and even sampled or directly quoted back to us above.

There are a number of little changes and little things that do change and stay changed (do business with the blacksmith or his little girly apprentice after you kill Ulfric, for instance) after the Civil War chain. And there are a number of them that, like finishing the main quest line or any of the others do not change universally.

You can RP this and figure that the guards gossip mill that is almost psychic sometimes doesn't always extend to the common rabble or you can winge and QQ and rage at the developers and those would be examples of choices you can make.

I am curious because you didn't answer it in your previous thread so I'll ask it directly again here... what exactly were you expecting to change that didn't and has made you so angry?

I went for the Imperial side and I like to sneak around those Stormcloak camps and cast Frenzy on them. It's fun to watch the captain kill his own men and then walk back to his tent all alone.

I can't speak for the OP, but I expected that when Tullius told me to wipe out any remaining Stormcloak Camps I found, and then I stumble upon one I should damn well be able to kill everyone there. The fact that they put that line in specifically, and then leave the Stormcloak officers essential smacks of incompetence to me.

And then people ask why Morrowind was so much better , well for one, because of stuff like this.