Some of the enemies should be scaled in most situations, but to a reasonable extent. A Bandit should never cause me too much trouble, but a Bandit Chief should still be able to put up a fight no matter what level I am. A Dragon should put up an even fight, and an Ancient Dragon should vastly out-level me even if I've hit the cap.

While I'm not against breezing through regular enemies when I'm at a very high level, I am against fighting my way through a room-full of Dragur Death Overlords without taking a noticeable amount of damage.

I usually argue for the sake of argument >.>

Most of my arguments were generally directed toward people who want more scaling of individual enemies. Because that's how I read scaling. And generally that's what people like to ask for.

As long as leveling gets you to "god mode" I couldn't care less about the interim in all honesty.

Back on topic: No, I don't like the way enemies scale at all. I much preferred what Obsidian did with Deathclaws in FO:NV. There were ranks for the Deathclaws such as Legendary, Patriarch, Matriarch, (young?) Deathclaws, etc.

I thought that was why the Bandits had Highwaymen and Marauders, but the way things scale right now makes those designations pointless.

Yes but just one change, make an unfinished dungeon reset after a specified number of days. That way if you are level 20 now but accidentally stepped into the dungeon at level 5, it will still be a challenge.

I felt it was a good compromise between Morrowind's "everything is easy after a certain point" and Oblivion's "everything is a challenge no matter how powerful you become". It was in fact what I was hoping for before the game was announced.

Really for me everything is trivial past 25 in all of my builds on any difficulty setting. At level 50, which is pretty easy to reach how I play which is exploring A LOT, doing A LOT of side quests, it all stops scaling. The majority of the game is going to be experienced post 50, and everything is so freaking easy by then, I just cannot enjoy the game. Everything falls over in a hit and the items I get don't matter as I have been wearing the best items for the past 20+ levels anyways. There is a lot to do in Skyrim, just not a whole lot of reason to do it (and it is very very very easy).

that seems like a no-brainer, to me.

If you're doing the majority of the game post 50 and have the best equips at 20 you're doing two things...

1) Power leveling major skills (Smithing being a big one)
2) Min/maxing your statistics.

The game wasn't designed for that combo. In fact if you're focused on major questlines you can finish the game by 40 (I did everything but main quest and DB by 40). Just running around aimlessly doesn't tend to accrue a lot of levels either, you'd have to run around aimlessly while actively trying to level and ignoring the game content in order to "experience most of [it] post 50"

Who are you to tell me I am playing the game wrong? That is a load of hogwash saying that "min maxing is wrong". Guess what buttercup, all RPGs hinge around character building. This is not a new concept propagated by MMOs. Further, OF COURSE I AM ACTIVELY LEVELING. By partaking in combat (exploring and questing) my skills go up and I level. I should not have to intentionally NOT level up. The game scales dismally. I did not "power level anything." When I say the majority of the game is spent post 50, that's because by doing the quests and exploring you are going to be leveled up. There is so much content (which is a good thing) that you are not "done with content" by 50.

you need scaling to some degree. and bethesda handles it very well in skyrim as they did in FO3, you get to become powerful and you can kill most enemies a lot easier than in the beginning of the game, no scaling at all is stupid and isn't challenging enough. and as far as everything having to "make sense", thats an obsidian type of style and to become overly obsessed with everything having to "make sense" is more of a hand tying philosophy and it limits artistic license which leads to a boring gameworld like we all saw in new vegas. bethesda makes fantasy type games and wanting everything to "make sense" is stupid.

Not really. I don't feel any more accomplished from killing a standard bandit, even if it is suddenly as powerful as I am for some arbitrary reason, using the exact same gear as a bandit 20 levels lower yet somehow able to receive and deal attacks that can match me "just because".

Blatant level scaling is a crutch, perpetrated because designers cannot or will not put forth the thought and effort to ensure the game's level of internal consistency can account for where and when the player will likely be at any given time.

I never said you were doing wrong. I said what you are doing isn't what the game was deigned to deal with.

Additionally... Level doesn't mater for rewards barring like 4 armor sets (which you can make better versions of) and 5-6 weapons (which once again you can best with enchanting anyway). The majority of actual MEAT content (storyline content) actually fals pretty reasonably within the 1-50 range if you decide to do it AS your leveling content. Additionally level cap is 81, the game was designed to be played 1-50 with LOTS of post 50 time. Enemies are set up in such a way that you';re SUPPOSED to outlevel them. You're basically the equivalent of a god made flesh (awesome). ONce you hit 50 what is there suposed to challenge you? Alduin? God? That's about it.

Not that the game couldn't use a couple super bosses (but not one or more in every dungeon like oblivion. Maybe one in every 4-6 dungeons) but its hardly poorly scaled. It's exactly what being a legendary nigh-godlike hero SHOULD be.

I was hoping radiant quest givers for the guilds you join would give you tougher things to face at higher levels(50 +)

This is an idea I had regarding monster spawns and scaling.

With scaled enemies, you find yourself playing against tougher and tougher enemies as you progress through the game. With non-scaled enemies, you find yourself playing against tougher and tougher enemies as you progress through the game.

So there is this most fearsome monster of level 46 deathlord murderboss witchking.

You get to level 80 and we have two options

a. trivialize the level 46 monster
b. scale that level 46 monster to match your level of 80.

No other option???

c. If most fearsome enemy is level 46 and hero gets to level 80 then level 80 hero is the problem. Just make it so the hero is level 26 and most fearsome enemy is level 30ish (or hero is level 80 and most fearsome enemy is level 100). Scaling is not needed for this. This trap can be avoided with better design and balance.

I am checking the CK and I am still learning but as I understand, it is more like Morrowind. No scaling of individual monsters. There is still level for level matching leveled lists(all of them apparently) but there is also the encounter zones.

If you like Morrowind style, it is really good up until level 24, I recommend quiting after that level(before 30 somewhere). It is Oblivion level scaling past 24. So you have been warned.

If you are OK with scaling and you can go to level 50.

You can compare your early game and late game experiences to judge level scaling vs. no level scaling. I think late game(30+) svcks, first 25 levels are amazing in each of my play-throughs.

After level 46, no more scaling, that's the part where whole world trivializes, I never went there personally. So don't pass that if you want challenge.

Real world is a nice model to look at, it doesn't have scaling nor staticness to it. Random between ranges, with population control systems: day-night, climate, weather, elevation, time cycles etc as ZzAr.:hu said above. The world can be linked in a much more sensible and dynamic way.

Adaptation can be a part of the system too but worlds never adapts to individuals, that happens between large parties(ecosystems) or between individuals(your followers or your archenemy). Scaling can have a reason but that reason should be there in the game world itself(like blight, it gets worse as a plot point), not as a gamey mechanic.

The enemy scaling in Skyrim is nearly perfect. Personally, if they never changed the system again, I wouldn't complain.

About the only thing I can complain about, is that the challenge doesn't hold passed level 50-60 depending on your difficulty.

I dare anyone who thinks Skyrim's Level Scaling is "Hand Holding" to take the Arcwind Point challenge. Basically, go to Arcwind Point (Near Froki's Shake, behind the Rift Imperial Camp) Before level 5 on Master Difficulty. If you can reach the top of the Arcwind tower, you win 3 internets.

Ah, I remember Arena, exit a City to walk about the Countryside. At low level find a dungeon, get a random chance of "Lich is regenerating" .

Run like crazy.

Game needs random incidences of extremely high enemies, just to keep your respect and wariness about you when exploring.

Yup.

I miss that Neverwinter era when it was really easy to mess things up on the easiest difficulty level and realize that "Sh*t, I can't possibly complete the main quest with this kind of character build".

And then start over.

You realize that Bethesda STATED that they scaled the system from 1-50 and that anyone who chooses to level past 50 wasn't going to get the same scaling.

Additionally as far as I can tell the highest level enemies are vampires (scaling to 54sh IIRC). You're SUPPOSED to eventually becomes powerful enough to handle anything the game throws at you with little threat to your character. The only real issue for "threats" is that enemy damage doesn't scale enough with one handed weapons. 2 handed weapons remain a threat at 50 even with full DR in unenchanted gear, whereas a full enchanted set can really trivialize every enemy from about level 20 onward.

like becoming a veritable god. It make sense within the theme of the game (which is a re-imagining of epic poems etc).

...no matter how "well" or "intelligently" you play.

This is what bugs me the most i think.

But I accept the fact that I might be the only one to think like this.

i, and, many others, know that the game is easy on master much sooner than level 50.

the "master" difficulty is anything but.

I and many many others are in disagreement with how the game is designed. It makes no sense to completely stop enemy scaling post 50 especially in a game as large as Skyrim. I understand how Skyrim is set-up, I think it was a very poor design decision. Players should have the option of controlling enemy scaling. This does not disturb other players who enjoy how it is structured now, it gives players such as myself the ability for more of a consistent challenge. Further, the game does not get trivial post 50, this happens for me around level 25 no matter what build of difficulty I play on. It just is not any fun not being challenged in the slightest. You take almost any other RPG game and you are always progressing and getting stronger, but there are also always greater and greater challenges that await. In an ideal world, you peak out at the very end of the game. Allowing scaling through itemization, character, and enemies to continue nearly infinitely is good game design.

In Skyrim, they basically built the entire game around the lowest common denominator average player who is ADD ridden and rushes through the game. Sorry, I play RPGs to explore. I take my characters through everything. When I reroll another character, that should be to do it a DIFFERENT way, which Skyrim really does not have. Instead what you almost have to do is rush through the game and only complete a limited amount of content each time. That is stupid.

I like the Skyrim way of doing it, with few directly leveled enemies. I wish some of the stronger enemies had lower levels for appearing though, would have been very interesting.

I prefer fixed levels.

You should not be able to finish the main quest at level 20.

The great thing about RPGs is that you can't enter certain places until you're higher level so you have to go off and do more lower level quests in order to work yourself up to that point OR create a build in which you can "punch over your weight" which adds different dynamics to the game.

I would have preferred that the main quest be high level which meant in order to get to that you had to do all the guild quests on the side building up your levels.