This has been something that has bothered me for a while. Skill level contributes very little to your power, with perks having about 90% of all of the power in a skill. This means that skills have little use beyond meeting the skill level requirement for perks. Some skills are borderline useless without perks in them.

Some examples:


- Smithing. The whole tree is borderline worthless if you don't have perks in it. You can have skill level 100 in it, but without perks all you can forge is bottom-tier gear. Perks should be nice little bonuses that are relevant to the skill, not as a requirement to actually use the skill properly. It seems like Bethesda implemented smithing, couldn't think of any good perks, and just put arbitrary restrictions on the skill that could only be undone by wasting a bunch of perk points.

- Archery. The Steady Aim perk is so useful that archery is neutered if you don't use it. Now don't misunderstand me, I like the slow time effect. What I'm saying is that the slow time effect should have become unlocked automatically after skill level 40 (or whatever level) and the steady aim perk could have increased the effect. It should not of been no slow time whatsoever if you don't use perks. The perks should have been complementary, not necessity.

- Enchantment and Alchemy. All enchantments and potions are incredibly weak without perks. Even at skill level 100, most of your enchantments and potions aren't strong. with a handful of perks in each, you magically transform into a god at those skills. A person with skill level 30 and two perks is more powerful than a person with skill level 100 and no perks. As the late Johnnie Cochran said, "That does not make sense".

- One Handed and Two Handed. Same problems as above, almost all power in perks, very little in skill.



What I want is skill to be buffed and have some perks be standard features of that skill, instead of our current system.
(Keep in mind I like perks, but there implementation was quite poor in Skyrim IMO.)

What do you guys think? Discuss!

I agree they made perks too overpowered and that's one reason I don't use perks.

EDIT: I wonder what's Skyrim Fail #1.

You'll find out after I make the other 139 threads.

Hint: It rhymes with "Snow Fell Cremation"

I hope they dont pull a Bioware in TES VI:

Oh? Perks outweigh the effects of traditional leveling of skills? Lets get rid of skills and have leveling being determined solely by a generic XP counter. Take THAT spreadsheet lovers!

How is this a fail? Perks are there to complement skills, which alone wouldn't be that meaningful. Skills don't contribute that much to your power because of perks. You can bet that without perks the skills would have been much more powerful. It's just a design choice

The skill level does matter. When you use a grinding stone or work bench, the armor/damage rating increases. Not just Epic or Legendary but the actual number. I think this applies to other skills as well.

I admit, cremating snow does sound utterly pointless.

... wait a second...

I know it's a design choice. I disagree with it, so I made a thread stating why I dislike it.

You're still only making Iron or Leather though, so I guess just having 100 in Smithing with no perks makes you the best damn iron worker in Skyrim.

Too bad that means you'll still make gear weaker than other types.

Where you may be right about the weapon skills, the trade skills (with the exception of alchemy) can still add a decent effect to your characters gear. Any bonus to weapons or armour is better than no bonus at all.

Glow bell elation?

Almost.

Op is 100% correct.

This made my day. It's nice when someone completely agrees with you.

<--- man tears

Show Mel lactation?

Cold.

Smithing... You can still increase armors, just not with the double bonuses you get with the perk. And well, dragon and daedric are the only armors you don't find a dime a dozen..

Archery, 1H, 2H, LA, HA... Your skill is the % of the base damage of the weapon. So 100 skill will give you 25 damange, where 50 skill will give you 12 damage.

And I never needed to zoom in on archery to hit my targets... so guessing your aim just svcks?

So um... yeah, the skill level does have something to play.. Perks just multiply the effectiveness.

100% correct.

Skill points aren't used to determine your power. They are really only used to work towards you character level and that's pretty much it I think. The Perks are designed for you to be proficient and powerful at said skill, not the skill level in this version of TES.

Perks ain't much to shout about either.

Which I believe is precisely the problem. I want skill to determine my power, with perks being a nice little bonus.

It is true that the perk system for all practical purposes has destroyed the whole notion of being able to make a character that can learn anything in Elderscrolls.

The older games actually gave you more freedom, because even if you picked a class, if you didn't like where it was taking you you could start learning something else with the only penalty for doing so being that it took longer to learn. In Skyrim if you've perked your way up the destruction tree and then realize you'd rather use a sword you will never get those points back.

I agree with a few points, but not others. Smithing I can agree with, although as pointed out skill level does have an affect on improvements of weapons and armor. Archery should keep it's steady aim perk. Being able to zoom in sounds like a perfect perk to compliment the skill and I see no reason for it to always unlock after a certain skill level is reached.

The real problems lies not in the perks you pointed out, but in the generic % perks. Like "Bows do 20% more damage". This kind of perk totally lacks creativity and shouldn't be necessary in order to balance combat as you increase in level. Damage should increase based on your skill level at a much greater rate than it does now. As it is, a person with 100 Archery but no % damage perks probably does the same amount of damage with a bow as a person with 40 Archery and 2 % damage perks. THIS is what really needs to be removed. It seems like Bethesda thought "Cool, let's have a ton of perks for every skill!" and then could barely think of any and filled in the rest with generic "increased damage" perks.

A 'perk' is a bonus. It shouldn't be necessary.

Those 5/5 Perks just basiclly double your skill level. It still depends on your base skill...

The magic skills just reduce magicka costs and allow for new spells to be available...

So skills are not useless, just the perks mutliply them...

having 100 in any magic skill makes the spells for that school cost 41% less, that seems pretty good