Fallout 3 having better quests than Skyrim is simply subjective opinion, nothing more.

I was just as engulfed in Skyrim's questlines as I was with anything in Fallout 3. I don't think that Fallout 3 had significantly better questlines or stories, if better at all.

"Average" also includes people who picked up Skyrim for 10 hours and never came back.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see that Morrowind and Oblivion had "averages" similar to Skyrim. 85 hours may not be much to the hardcoe gamers that clock hundreds of hours per title, but 85 hours certainly is a lot for the "average" gamer.

Hell, as die hard as I am about this series, my characters tend to fizzle out somewhere around the 100 hour mark. Not because there's no more content, but usually just because my character has become who I want my character to be by that point.

well lets try to steer this more towards on topic since we're talking about C&C and not really Dialoge Options. The Opposition would be utterly correct. The amount of Dialog options -Have not changed- from Dagger to Skyrim the options to reply to NPC's have diminished a Tad but are still roughly what they always have been small very small....WHY is this still the case after FALLOUT 3 and FALLOUT NEW VEGAS is beyond me but thats how it is.

So those who were against the OP are more or less correct, there really hasn't been much change in Dialog Options across the TES series.

I've already explained, Fallout and Elder Scrolls are different IP's with different focuses. Read my post above, I forget which one.

Also, given the context of the discussion, Fallout: New Vegas is an unfair comparison anyways since Bethesda didn't develop it.

Fallout 3 is a much more fair comparison, but even then, Fallout and Elder Scrolls have entirely different focuses.

FO3 did not require Steam. It used GFWL *booo, hiss* for the DLC only.

Again, you're not taking into account casual players. Skyrim also sold more than these games- quite a bit more. Not all of those are going to be diehard Bethesda players who put hundreds of hours into one game.

This is it really.

People who stayed in the Mojave (the die-hard Vegas fans) are disappointed because Skyrim simply cannot compete on dialog. Some say Beth =/= Obsidian and we have to live with that. I'd rather voice my complaints of course and hope Beth adopts Obsidian's dialog style, but this is somewhat true of course.
But what's even more concerning is that Fallout 3 ultimately had far more dialog than any Beth game. They say what FO1 and FO2 looked like, tried to adapt themselves to match the dialog style, did a pretty decent job with it (cmon die-hard Fallout fans, even if you think they provided less than FO1 and FO2, you have to admit they improved from TES and did a decent job with it) and THEN...

Then they dropped it. Then they went back to what they did before. They thought the things worth saluaging from Fallout are the perk system (true, though poorly implemented in Skyrim) and the lockpicking mini game.
THAT'S what's so scary about it...



Obviously it's not perfect. Nevertheless I think it'd be worth looking at.

Plain truth is it doesn't cost as much to have written dialogue as it does to hire voice actors. Everyone expects everything voiced these days and they expect a variety of voices. Notice how everyone complained about Oblivions small amount of voice actors?.. so for Skyrim they had 70?. (you still mostly notice the same voices over and over though.) Until they create a voice synthesizer that can do different dialects, accents and a wide variety of voices this is something we'll just have to deal with on bigger games like this. .. I guess that's what the game guide is for though. Main characters all have backgrounds, Cities all have background stories. These aren't told in the game at all but they are described in the game guide. The guide is almost a necessity if you truly want to know what's going on.

This must be a different Fallout 3 than I played.

There's really no sense in arguing with people wearing rose colored glasses for their favorite game(s).

But Nell putting aside NV IP or not The people who made the TES series made FO3 and Skyrim, now I personally think FO3's story/Dialog svcked (IM LOOKING FOR MY FATHER, A MIDDLE AGED MAN), but it advanced ages more than how Oblivion presented itself, and that Prowess is really not exercised as much as it was in FO3 going to Skyrim in DIALOG options

Fallout 3 isn't even one of my favorites. I criticize it too...I mean don't get me wrong, the story was copy-pasted, the world made no friggin' sense, a couple of the stats -literally- did nothing, the perks of FO3 look like a joke compared to New Vegas and past FO titles, the Lone Wanderer was bipolar in the sense that his dialog ranged from "Oh please, I miss my daddy so much!" to "I will tear your nuts off and feed them to you if you ask me for free water again"...
Doesn't mean I can't compliment it though when it sincerely does a better job with dialog than Skyrim.
As I've said, FO3 dialog can basically be summed up as good/neutral/evil options, which is still an improvement from TES' "yes" and ocassional "yes/no" dialog.

You missed my point entirely.

My point was that Fallout 3 could get away with that, because it is a more story driven IP / game, so limited "good" "evil" and "neutral" choices are acceptable, because the game is less about building a unique character, and more about progressing through a story.

However, that is not what Elder Scrolls is about. Elder Scrolls is less about progressing through the story, and more about creating a character that exists in a world, and creating that character entirely in the image of the player. "Good", "evil" and "neutral" branching dialogue would quite frankly limit my roleplay possibilities, because it takes the roleplay out of my hands and puts it into the hands of Bethesda writers. That is not what Elder Scrolls is about.

Thus, Elder Scrolls ultimately has "yes" "no" choices, and it is up to the player to fill in the blanks, instead of Bethesda ultimately dictating roleplay by giving a limited amount of pre-scripted dialogue options that lead you down a pre-determined path. Elder Scrolls has always been about not giving the character a voice, and not putting thoughts and words into the character's mouth, because that is the job of the player, not the developers.

What you are asking for with dialogue is not part of Bethesda's vision for Elder Scrolls, nor has it ever been. It is part of their vision for Fallout.

Quite simply put, I more prefer Skyrim's method of dealing with it, because I want the RP left up to me, not Bethesda writers.

Post limit reached, but I'll reply anyways: Oblivion didn't have more dialogue choices than Skyrim. Morrowind was full text, but without actual choice there either iirc. Sure, you could chat about a million different topics, but you didn't actually have a choice as to how you'd answer. So yeah, the dialogue system is pretty much what I expected from TES. Sure, it'd be nice to have a more in-depth system, but it's hardly a slap in the face to get what you expected.

How does extra character dialog prevent you from imagining up your own responses?

Woooord.

FULL SPEED TO PAGE 9 BEFORE THE MODS CATCH US, GOGOGO!

Because whatever Bethesda wrote as the "good", "evil", or "neutral" responses might not have anything at all to do with what I want my character to be. There are many times when playing a BioWare game that an appropriate response for my character is not available, or you begin focusing on responses that will get you the "good" and "evil" points. It ultimately scripts who your character is going to be, and gives the character a voice, which is not what Bethesda wants to do.

So does yes/no dialog.

FFS, the yes dialog scripts you way more than any good/neutral/evil dialog ever would. I'd love to be a companion that isn't a werewolf but the dialog only says yes, really. (aware you can say no, but then you can't continue the questline)

I don't see how having System 1, with options A and B, is any worse in this respect than System 2, with options W, X, Y, and Z.
If you are role playing your own responses anyway, then it can't hurt to have a "Yes," "No," and a "Maybe" thrown in for variety.

In other words, if you want your options to be Yes/No and I want my options to be Good/Bad/Neutral, then what's the matter with having five options?

Yes
No
Nice
Rude
Dismissive

For me, roleplaying based on in-game mechanics ? mindplay. The more dialog options, the better.

How does multiple dialogue options with multiple responses/results force you to play a certain character more so than a single dialogue option? It's not like the dialogue options in Skyrim are [Fill in the blank], they use a specific vocabulary and have specific tones.

Edit: What everybody else said...

Yeah, we had something like this in Oblivion and people hated it. That said, final bosses in TES have always been kind of lacking compared to the journey. Dagoth Ur was a pushover, you didn't even fight Mehrunes Dagon, and Alduin is pretty easy by the time you get to the end of Skyrim.

"yes" / "no" is generic, and allows the player to fit in their own motives as they see fit, without putting words into the character's mouth.

Can it be done better? Yes. Certainly. But that is their vision, and Bethesda's vision for Elder Scrolls is not to have those "good", "evil", "neutral" dialogue trees, nor is it to have "choose your own adventure" multiple path questlines.

Is this an area that BioWare / Obsidian do better? Sure. But considering that's not Bethesda's intent with these games, it's hard to actually condemn them for not being up to snuff with those developers who's vision is branching dialogue trees.

I do believe Skyrim having certain specific dialogue choices is in fact their attempt to implement Fallout 3 into Elder Scrolls, for better, worse or indifferent. But as that is not their focus, they are not going to go all out on that area.

Ever think that maybe Bethesda's "vision" is a little... lacking? For example, when this series first started out, it was about being an RPG. Now, the focus has shifted to exploration and accessibility over everything else. Maybe it's time for their vision to shift again.

Actually, their initial idea for Arena was for it to be a gladiator game hence the name Arena.