Let me start off by saying that Skyrim, in it's entirety, is a decent game. It has great moments, but is more shallow than Jack Black. Skyrim is so shallow, if it was a puddle of water, a fly couldn't bathe. It's that shallow.

Let's start off by discussing the absolute lack of CHOICE in dialogue options. Actually, we can't even discuss the "lack" of choice, because that insinuates there are at least a few. But the fact is, there are none. This game would be better described as an interactive movie that you actually don't interact with, just move the main character around in.

Every single quest, with the exception of a few SCRIPTED quest, has the same result for *every* dialogue choice selected. Get angry? Same result. Get snobby? Same result. Just say "ok."? Same result. It all leads to the same result, making multiple playthroughs impossible for immersions sake. There's no difference at all.

Don't want to do a quest? Nah, can't deny it. Just let it sit in your log. Want to do a quest in a way that's out of the box? Nah, can't do that, everything is hard scripted to the point of zero options at all.

Bottom line: Doing quest in Skyrim is like watching a movie. You can say certain things, but all choices lead to the exact same option, there is no branching, no choice. I would call Skyrim questing more along the lines of World of Warcraft (yes, I said it) than an actual RPG.

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The second thing that makes Skyrim dialogue so absurdly shallow is the fact that there is *no* descriptive text or voice acting whatsoever.

Quest giver: "Go here, get this." That's literally what is said. Oh, and then your map is updated and a huge arrow over your head is placed on an imaginary compass on your forehead. Oh, thanks. Cool. That's descriptive!

Morrowind quest dialogue: "In order to obtain this mystical sword, you must first take the Silt Strider to Seyda Neen. After arriving, you must walk through the marshes, passing the Delano Ancestral Tomb, and crossing the fjord. After that, look east, and pass between the two mountains that look like the humps of a Guar. Once there, enter the ruin. Be wary, traveler, as many vile things inhabit that ruin."

See how much more fun that is? See how much more descriptive that is? The REALISM? The DIRECTION? The actual use of landscape in the game world to give you an idea of where to go? That's AMAZING. Yet, in my over 300 hours of Skyrim, I have seen absolutely nothing but "Hey, go here. Get this. Ty."



Bottom Line: Skyrim's dialogue and quest giving is the most shallow i have seen in any game I have ever played, and I enjoy the quest text from an MMO more. It's sad, and shame on you Bethesda for treating your fans like 4 year olds. Maybe next time, you'll make an actual RPG instead of a hiking simulator.

Agreed. Obsidian outclassed them in every way with New Vegas.

I haven't played New Vegas, but I have heard that the dialogue and choice in NV is a lot better than Skyrim.

It's not even difficult either. Sometimes i'm CONVINCED i could do a better job at writing the dialogue lines out. Just a little bit of variety would be nice, but no, all those 3 dialogue choices on your screen lead to the same line.

I will say that the voice acting is much improved from Oblivion though.

Good read

And I agree

What Bethesda needs to do is hire some guys from CDProjekt to make the quests, and write the dialogue.

Don't get me wrong; Bethesda's voice actors are great. The writing, however, and descriptive writing, is non existent, thus making good voice acting pointless.

Amen to the op, amen.

Just remember the game was made not for the people who try different things or want consequences. No the gams was made for console players that play a game once and move on. Its the only reason why I can think that u can join every guild no matter what and ace it no matter your class, each dialogue has same the same effect, and that when their are choices it dosent effect the world at all, onlt 2 isolated grp of hermits. And also why the civil war was a mirror of each side so if ya didnt want to do the other side, no worrys because uve basically alrdy did it alrdy.

Fun game, but its made to look pretty on ur shelf or harddrive gathering dust months after the final dlc arrives if not long before then.

I wish Bethesda would comment on this, and tell us WHY they have taken such shortcuts in the games they make. It's honestly sad, and like the title says, a slap in the face to fans of this series.

You say this is a, "slap in the face to TES fans," but have the previous games actually given us more choice in what we said? I'm all for nostalgia but the conversation topic system of previous games was widely maligned in its time and I doubt it would be better received than the current system.

It's true that the Elder Scrolls focuses more on exploration that NPC interaction, but there's a balancing act here. FONV does far more with NPCs and factions, but the world is much smaller. Bloodlines, an excellent RPG, had great NPC dialogue but it was a very tight world and many areas were railroaded. It's give and take, and personally I enjoy the variety.

The dialogue in general and the options are just awful. Sometimes it sounded like a teenager's writing.

Then again it's not only dialogue that suffers from lack of action-reaction, it's everything in Skyrim. Even the greater plot.

Personally I think because of that stupid deadline in combination with the 6 GB of space. They needed to make decisions on what to do with the space they had and the deadline they put themselves up with. Which resulted in dialogue (amongst other things) to get the boot.

Morrowind had dialogue options. Daggerfall had dialogue options. Oblivion had less, and started getting in more with the "go here" type quest, but it wasn't as bad. Skyrim, however, offers absolutely zero choice in any quest that you do, besides letting it sit in your log.

In Morrowind, you had multiple ways to complete various quest. THe end of the Fighters guild quest, the Vivec/MQ quest, you had MANY choices in doing certain things. This is completely absent in Skyrim.

I think the "Nostalgia Effect" has a lot to answer for here.
If you actually go back to Obv. and MW, their dialogue is no better and no worse than Skyrim's.
The dialogue in the TES games serves a purpose and I believe it serves that purpose very well.

I think you'll find there are just as many threads regarding poor dialogue in the Obv and MW as you think that there are in Skyrim...

And beside comparing FONV and Skyrim or doing anything sort of "out of scope" comparison is SUCH an apples and pears thing.

Couldn't agree more. The quests,the journal, just all the writing in The Witcher 2 is done superbly, though the game is clearly made for a more mature audience (you know why) while skyrim seems to be aimed at a wider audience including younger gamers (early to mid teens) who lets face it don't give a !@#$ about story depth.
I'm not trying to insult bethesda or younger gamers it's just the way i see it though being a younger guy myself.

Again - Witcher 2 is not TES - you're crossing paradigms...

didn't say it was, was only agreeing with a previous post.

I know, but even still you are however implicitly comparing 2 very different games and such a comparison is specious at best because it doesn't hold water - (In My Opinion).

No offense, but that's absolute nonsense, as I play both frequently. Morrowind has amazing dialogue, descriptive and detailed. Saying it's the same as Skyrim is simply..uninformed.

Awww poor baby! Your the millionth person to [censored] about the dialogue and shallowness. Your just repeating what you hear.

If he's the "millionth person" that's complained then that's not a good thing...

I suppose i was, however i'll clarify that i was comparing the writing not the entire game. sorry if i confused anyone. I'll just compare it to morrowind to avoid similar occurrences.

It's just annoying really. I picture some kid on his PC reading all the complaints about Skyrim. Then he starts a thread and complains about the same thing, how creative. I know constructive criticism can help, but I don't think the devs are gonna read a thread about the same recycled garbage that pollutes Skyrim general discussion.

Well said op I agree Skyrim is good but they definitely took shortcuts in Oblivion and Skyrim.

Its completely possible to have an open-world game with really good dialogue and quests.