I blame the console kiddies! Not only was it dumbed down for those fools that can't even figure out that computers are the ultimate gaming experience but it was held back so much and it still doesn't even run well on the damn PS3. Bethesda just needs to let go of the damn consoles and make computer games again!

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Yeah, why would a company want money anyway?

I know right! What company is out to make money, thats just a stupid business practice that needs to be done away with. Obviously businesses need to cater to the most niche clientele to be considered a worthy company.

My first character, having them enabled and using them actively, I found all stones by level 45 or so.
My second character, where they are modded out, I have found only three stones. Coincidence?

*sigh* not one of these threads again. I swear, these forums are almost as bad as image boards sometimes.


I'm not denying that there has been dumming down in the land of dialogue and UI, but blaming this all solely on consoles and their players.

Shame on Bethesda for wanting to increase their already deep clientele.

Shame on Bethesda for wanting to increase profits for future installments.

Shame on Bethesda for diversifying their mediums and investments.

And above all, shame on Bethesda for keeping up with the trends. Like it or not, the action-RPG elements are here to stay.

Capitalism and the need to make money is ok with moderation.

the problem is what happens when a company becomes obsessed with just making a profit?

Do our games get better or do they become just glorified animated dumb-down movies?

There has to be balance. capitalism will eat its own children for profit and not care if not watched. This applies to other things not just games.

This post is so much fun in so many ways.

Well Bethesda can't make bigger and badder titles if it doesn't make any money. I do believe though that gaming companies, especially those with heavy followings like Blizzard, should have some loyalty to their customers, namely their base. Just looked at what happened to Bioware; completely ruined a hopeful series over a sequel that was churned out in only a few months.

Why can't casual players have nice things?I see many examples of games TES should be more like(Witcher 1&2,dark souls,demon souls,Risen,Gothic 1 thru whatever)

The L33T crowd seems to have many games to choose from.

I get the feeling Bethesda wont get any respect from this crowd til they go out of business catering to a niche market(Troika,BIS,etc)

PS
Am I the only one that sees "People with jobs" when someone writes casuals

You have your CoD, stop complaining.

Do you know a company that doesn't make games solely for profit? The only difference between a company like EA or Activision and a company like CD Projekt or (old) Bioware is simply the methods by which they try and obtain more money. Neither is more or less greedy than the others, although some may think so based of their respective business strategies.

Really? Really?

There's a difference between streamlining and dumbing down. I would say Skyrim is far more the former than the latter. The fact is, it's a game, and not everyone wants to spend three hours sauntering around the map trying to find the next quest location from some obscure in-game description. Not everyone wants to have to revisit every shop in the game to look for some quest-specific item that they sold 20 hours ago. Is it easier than say Morrowind? Yes. But a lot of the "easy button" features can be turned off or otherwise ignored if you don't like them.

If you think being told where an objective is at is any more difficult than being shown where it is, then the only dumbing down here is in your head. Surely everyone complaining about the quest markers don't have trouble following simple directions right? If I told you that the cups were in the cupboard above the sink, would you explore my entire house trying to find them until I pointed to them directly? Since when is asking for directions considered a difficult thing to do? So please explain to me how finding out an objective's location through dialogue is any more challenging than an arrow pointing to it.

I'm so sorry that because I have an Xbox, in somehow, someway, ruined your PC which is probably miles and miles away from wherever I am, even if we probably have completely different interests and tastes in video games. Truly, blame me for all the marketing decisions the entire gaming industry has made for the past ten years.

Do you even read before you post?

In this day and age that's all it is and the gaming industry has gone down hill in the last 5 years or so to the point where they have forgot how to make a good game and support it. I blame it on Microsoft making their Xbox nothing more than a gold mine for game developers.

Companies can make money, that's fine but like Skyrim they spend less time on the game and more on marketing. There is nothing original about Skyrim, it's really a just a improved Oblivion with Dragons and made easier. We love it but that doesn't change the fact that the game little to offer as a RPG. Now if you want a modern RPG that's not dumbed down, try The Witcher 2, even a much smaller studio supported it better than Bethesa ever could because of their thrust for money.

I sure do. I've been seeing the same thing for years. Games getting consolized is nothing new. It's just sad to see that the mod community could improve this game by the thousands even without the CK. It just shows how little time they used optimizing the PC version. One mod in special saved my life. Now I no longer have to look at that horrendous pile of trash that is the UI.

This "dumbed down" argument is the absolute stupidest thing I have ever heard in my life.

One game gives you an arrow on your compass.

The other one puts in your journal "Go straight, turn left here, make a right there, and viola, you're at your destination" with a big yellow block on your map telling you exactly where it is.

One way isn't magically more complex while the other is magically more dumbed down.

Get off it, please.

I found this picture last night, and it sums up perfectly the idiocy of these threads:

[img]http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff52/nell2thaizzay/tumblr_lisp6ohmdy1qb3l9fo1_500.jpg[/img]

I agree, the dumbed down vs streamlined vs whatever argument is a lot of wheelspinning to no purpose. That noted:

Morrowind gave you a journal with general statements or vague hints for the most part about where things would be.

Oblivion gave you a compass with exact indications on a map of where things would be.

Skyrim give the compass and the exact indications on the map, plus a spell that leads you visually to that exact location.

This isn't a condemnation of any of the games, or the way this is presented. Each game was designed with a specific audience in mind.

Except there are these things called budgets, deadlines, and engine restrictions when it comes to making games. Mods are almost entirely free while the opposite is true for game developers. Bethesda can't make everyone happy; they'd be bankrupt.

I'm not saying that Skyrim can't be a better game. But this attitude that consoles are to be blamed for everything that you perceive as devolution of gaming and gaming software is just ludicrous.

No, you won't. You still have to find a way around mountains, and simply glitch jumping up them doesn't work most of the time, especially if you're, you know, actually ROLEPLAYING and not glitch-playing.

Plus, I get so immersed in the world that I am constantly getting lost, map markers be damned, because the world is so rich and detailed that I am paying attention to it, not my map markers.

If you're playing the game through your compass and map markers, that's your own fault.

Just follow the arrow around and I'll finish the game in no time.

Or just turn the HUD off and play like you normally would. The Options tab is there for a reason.

And the OP has to turn to insults instead of objective points, typical. The markers are more then ideal, do you really want to search 1-2 hours for a cave entrance when a marker would save you so much time for other things and another thing the markers are optional, let me repeat that, the markers are optional. You can turn them on or off, a huge improvement from the previous elder scroll and the last two Fallouts. Crying over spilled milk, I definitely agree with that.

Skyrim is not dumbed down, it's more easier to use and a better game. I would argue it's a better game then the previous Elder Scrolls, although better RPG, that's debateable due to some design choices.

I can't wait until the Op realizes that you don't have to play arrow to arrow because you can just turn it off by clicking the quest. Some people prefer that and Op needs to get off his high horse.