I think it is. What's the point in making a game where you explore the world and have arrows pointing you to where to go and point quest items out? Also, places that are not found show up on the compass in black if you get near them. Seriously though, do people really have fun running from one arrow to another or playing follow the arrow?

I don't think console gamers would get far with games like Gothic 3, where you have to go and explore and look for yourself, rather than having arrows pointing, telling you where to go. I think quests should give a hint to where the places are rather than directly show you on the map with a big arrow pointing at it. Go find it for goodness sake, that's the enjoyment of the game!

Are ya on console or PC? if ur on PC go into ur documents and go into the Skyrim prefs and find the bShowCompass=1 and turn it to zero and at least that one problem is solved. I will say i really enjoy not having that compass because now i really feel excited when i come across an area i havent explored. if ur on console, im sorry i dotn know what to say =[

but ya fair warning the u are right as far as the quests not giving alot of information though, which can be like a double edge sword. 1 side u have to think of where or what the thing is but on the other hand if its very vague then pack ur bags and grb some sandwiches ur going exploring and talkign to every person u see and reading every sign lol.

Its probably the most dumbed down ES game ever yes.

Or you can just turn down the hud opacity...

i dont really mind the arrow (because npc's descriptions of where to find things can be a bit difficult sometimes) but I agree they shouldnt have all the landmarks you havent found yet-i find that finding an interesting ruin on one's own iniative vastly preferable than just running towards a symbol you saw on your compass; much more immersive and rewarding in my opinion

As much as I and lots of other prefer the way you said it, please say "Streamlined" or the war will start all over again.

Uldred

Can't blame them though, that's the trend nowdays. Make things simpler and more friendly and efficient, rather than difficult and challenging. Not to say there are no challenges in Skyrim, great game, but it has that 2010s era feel.

You know you can turn the hovering arrow off, right? I appreciate that it leaves the map pointer on, but it still makes things a bit harder.

I know you can turn the quest arrows off but that's not the point. To me the game it way to easy, especially after playing Gothic 3. it just shows how bad games have got where arrows have to point you where to go and making games for the broader audience doesn't make games better.

I'm not following your baseless console player statement. I agree Skyrim has many shortcomings in its lack of complexity and RPG elements, but that claim...

Game was so awesome sauce you should have gotten more of your family members to purchase gothic 3 to keep them in business. Last i heard Piranha bytes went bankrupt and long since disbanded.

Nope, they're working on Risen 2.

I just turn off everything, compass, quest arrows, quest markers on map. It's all in the ini files.

The map centers on where you have to go if you go via the journal and that is close enough for me.

If I have to look through a whole house and check every drawer to find a document, that is what I do because that is what I would have had to do in a RPG game.

Funny enough there still is a quest marker on the local map, so if I am desperate I can check on that

Cheers!

I agree with the OP.

I simply can't play console versions of most games as without mods I can't remove handholding features. I want to use my brains and discover things myself. It's much more rewarding. Without brain use games just make me bored.


Edit:
Games are simplified and made easier to appeal to a wider audience. It's a fact. It means more money. Very popular games are slowly nearing the point that they don't interest a hardcoe player like me anymore. At least there is mods...and indie games.

I was in agreement with you until you pulled the console peasant card....

Why must we always go down that road? Why blame it on console gamers? You might notice that console gamers very often started out on PC. I too was a PC gamer, than I got a console because it was easier/cheaper to keep up with the latest games that way.

Did it automatically change my gaming tastes? NO.

I prefered Morrowind as well, and I also prefered it ON CONSOLE. In other words, Elder Scrolls going to consoles had nothing to do with it being dumbed down. Morrowind was available on consoles without quest marker and it sold far over a million copies. Basically it was more succesful than Skyrim is now on the PC.

Bethesda changed gameplay aka 'dumbed it down' because it would attract more gamers..... in general. Most gamers just happen to be on consoles, but that is besides the point. So don't generalize gamers in console and PC, but in core and casual. Blame casual gamers for being casual or blame a company for wanting to make their games more profitable if you must be unrational.

Or just accept that your gaming tastes are now in the minority and that the search for quest objectives and places of interest is considered boring by most people. And be very happy that Bethesda allows you to change it to your taste with mods. Your choice, just stop with the console bashing it is getting annoying.

Because games are dumbed down for console gamers, many games have been made easier for them because they are the more wider audience. Just go play Saints Row 3, it's console roots show by putting arrows everywhere, even to the point where the arrows show up on the road like a arcade racer.

I'm not saying console gamers are thick, I'm just saying games for console gamers are a lot more dumbed down and easy. play Gothic 3 and I'll see why Gothic 4 got dumbed down for consoles and people hated the devs for it, amongst other things

Quite a few games turn from being challenging to hand holding, Gothic 4 is a prime example of my point and the devs(not Piranha Bites) turned it into a easy hack and slash and destroying the game for the sake of making it more accessible to console gamers.

No, games are dumbed down for gamers... in general. Most gamers just happen to be on console.

If people must put others in categories than atleast use correct categories such as 'core' and 'casual'. Because among console gamers there are still a great many people who enjoy games that offer an intelligent challenge, games that make them think and not just react fast. And on PC there are also gamers who just want to play shooters (but with the best possible graphics). So to use a term like 'console gamers' in relation to 'dumbed down' just isn't correct.

I have played Gothic 2,3 and the action game Arcania, which is set in the world of Gothic. Arcania certainly is a completely different kind of game but this was a choice they made to increase their market. They casualized it, and yes they did hope to increase sales with this and most sales just happen to be on the largets market, which is the console market. Nevertheless I probably disliked Arcania as much on my 360 as you disliked it on your PC.

Correction: for the sake of making it more accessible to more gamers (of which most happen to be on console, because consoles represent 90% of the market).

See my other post above for further explanation.

@Ronnet:
Yes but Morrowind didn't get ported for PC, like the last two titles.
We didn't have to suffer from horrible menues and low resolution textures.

But yes this is hardly the consoles fault.
It's the lazy developer who could care less about his PC market and didn't do anything to optimize it for them.
I wish they offered a discount since I'm playing a console game on the PC.

You're arbitrarily pinpointing certain streamlining choices on consoles with absolutely no evidence. Where are you getting this from? Explain, then, the majority of historical console games that do no such thing. Explain Demon's Souls and Dark Souls (arguably among the most challenging modern games... both being console exclusive and stemming from a line of challenging From Software PlayStation RPGs beginning around 1994). Where is the connection between streamlining decision and platform made? What of the popularity of, say, World of Warcraft as a PC-exclusive title? Is that pure evidence of some unbridled difference in taste of depth or difficulty based on platform?

Did you know the annual Call of Duty release is one of the best-selling, if not the best selling, titles on every platform (PC, PS3, 360) each year? Did you also know that the market, regardless of platform, all seems to revolve around similar games? There are few exclusives anymore and despite the baseless claims of any "dumbing-down" being connected to consoles (a clearly flawed and ignorant thought from one who likely doesn't have much background in terms of console-owning or playing experience), games that are supposedly "dumbed-down" see similar percentages of sales across all platforms. Platform doesn't dictate taste beyond influencing a bit of a bias for, say, Halo with Xbox players, JRPGs with PS players, and strategy games or MMOs with PC players, but for the most part, single-player WRPGs, shooters, action games, etc. tend to sell well on all platforms. There is no established connection between consoles and being dumbed-down. It's absolute rubbish.

Sorry but you don't destroy games just for the wider market but yes I can see why they would do it for money. Consoles have always been popular, it's nothing new, it's just the Xbox360 made PC games more accessible but that doesn't make it a good thing.

CoD is dumbed down rubbish yeah and it sells, just like rubbish does now days. People buy rubbish all the time.

Whilst I agree with your post OP if you are on PC you can turn certain things off in the ini file or there is a HUD mod on the Nexus that lets you customize how it works - http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3222

The point is that people buy rubbish regardless of platform. If the PC crowd was as supposedly generally disgruntled with certain changes as some PC players might have you think, why, then, does the PC, as a platform, keep getting and selling the same popular games as its contemporary platforms, generally? If challenge was the key to winning PC gamers' hearts, why in the world were Demon's Souls and Dark Souls not released on the PC and if the console gamer wants as easy of an experience as is claimed, why then did, as console exclusives, Demon's Souls and Dark Souls sell remarkably well? Where were all these markers and streamlined mechanics when Morrowind sold better on the Xbox than it did on the PC, even? When I was playing Dragon Quest VIII, pre-Final Fantasy XIII titles, Demon's Souls and other console-exclusive RPGs, where were my quest markers? Shouldn't they have been there, for sure, in the case of console-exclusives if console players really are to blame for needing them?