You've not been locked out of a game when Steam decides it wants to update when your internet is down/inaccessible.

Oh mods are really nice. It's like a kid in a bakery store. Or like some say. In the candy store. Take your pick.

All the mods you can get. Yum, Yum, Yum, Yummy. That is what i, and many others like about PC. Modded Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim. Although i also have the PS3 version. I think i will be spending more time on my PC.

Nope, and I've been using steam since Half Life 2.

I did get a taste of that when I was trying to play Civ V on my laptop while I was at my in-laws in PHX. I thought I wouldn't have to be online as I was using a 3G wireless USB device and I didn't want to have to log in, but the game wouldn't even start if I wasn't connected to the Internet.

However, the convenience of the gaming platform far exceeds that of the inconvenience of having to have a working Internet connection

--Randall

Its because Steam now has such a stranglehold on digital sales that retail sale outlets are no longer stocking games, as the customers the retail store used to have are the very ones now buying digitally. With so few people in the US now buying PC games at retail, some stores simply cant afford the cost of trying to compete with steam.

My reasons exactly.

Can`t see why we must go through this for an offline game, Multiplayer fair enough, but offline? And forced on everyone? Why?

Obviously something in it for Bethesda.

Another case of us rushing headlong into new technology and causing our own suffering. Though I'm an avid fan of steam, some of these comments make me stop and think it may not have been the best idea.

SUHWEEEEEEEEEEEEEET ROLLLLLLLLS! GET THEM RIGHT HERE!
I don't get very good internet service where I live, frequently having to make do with Dial-up. ISP availabiltiy is not universal.

Why won't Microsoft change to allow mods? Sony probably can't.

The Apple store and Android store both have set up an expectation that developers provide value to a development platform. This example adds a level of indirection because the the modder is working with a Bethesda development kit instead of a clean set of APIs, which also has the benefit of being "containerized" and has fewer failure points. Microsoft's ecosystem for external development applications is poor, but I would not be surprised to see it grow during Windows 8 timeframe.

(speculating) So what could work? Seems like Bethesda is the one that could make this happen. In the short term, they package the releases. However, what they would not be able to do anymore is "here's a creation kit, it's unsupported, have fun." Doesn't seem too hard to tie this to a revenue stream - no reason some of the impressive mods aren't worth 99 cents. But how does the modder get a share? How does Bethesda get their share?

Buy a PC.

I wish the CK would be out already. :<

In the last couple of years, the idea of an "elitist" tag for PC gaming really needs to go. PCs are the norm for gaming in many major global markets, and high end gaming PCs are now very inexpensive (plus they do normal productivity, web browsing, academic research, etc much faster than midrange machines). Once you buy a console, controllers, TV, HDMI cables, etc, you'll spend nearly as much as you would for a high end PC, but you'll also be locked into the hardware limitations.

Mind you, I own consoles, too, mainly because various franchises are only on consoles (which also needs to change, but anyway...)

Another point, of course: the current consoles have become at least as complex as a PC, and in some ways even more so. That's why consoles have problems, too, including games with bugs, regular system updates, crashes, etc. The idea of consoles being simpler than PC and easy to "plug and play" for games is long gone.

To those who ask about consoles having mods and Beth pushing for it to happen... Beth already HAS done this, repeatedly, and Todd Howard has stated that they've demonstrated the tech to both Sony and Microsoft. It isn't the tech that is an issue, but rather the question of elements such as specific content (e.g., violence, sixual content, etc) and how acceptance of various content changes around the world. There are also potential issues such as network load due to far more downloads than uploads. Even Nexus has had issues with this, so console networks may not be able to handle the strain.

Thats a good frame of mind to be in, as only by questioning things can we learn to do better. It shows that your at least rational enough to realise there are pro's and con's to the system, the effect it has on other content providers, and that its not all roses.

Let's hear it for the modding community! I'm a user, not a modder, but OH how I appreciate you modders! TES has THEE best modding community, period! Lost Spires anyone? I mean adding a whole new guild to Oblivion was amazing! Morrowind Overhaul? Oh there are so many out there, it's unbelievable and they will keep you playing TES games for years to come!

Who here remembers Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul? I'm still running Oblivion with that mod on my other PC. It adds a whole new dimension to the game!

So far, I'm still playing Vanilla Skyrim, since I'm waiting for the CK to be released and see what the modding community will come up with! (I don't own a console, I'm an old fashion PC Gamer, with mouse and keyboard LOL)

Just a guess but it could be one of two reasons:
1: Microsoft doesn't want their console players to have access to mods that could include ESRB changing content.

2: Microsoft is afraid mods could mess up the Xbox's internal programming, which seems possible.

Never forget it. I was so disgusted with Oblivion vanilla that this mod saved me from chucking it in the bin forever! Good chap too.

Sorry. That didn't happen at all. High level programming languages gained popularity during the 60s. Assembly language has been in decline ever since. It is efficient to execute, it is inefficient to code. Today's compilers create better code than humans can write in assembly. This has to do with the increasing complexity of processors.

Also to add;

3.) MS dont want content on the network that may be deliberatley and maliciously designed to cripple systems as opposed to simple error

4.) MS dont want to be made liable to any issues or damage resulting from un-approved software.

You know Oscuro? What ever happened to him? The updates to O3 were done by someone else, since he stopped working on that mod. Hope he's doing well though! But yea, it totally turned Vanilla OB around!

No. Something in it for the customer. Also, a simple, nonintrustive way to check legitimate copies versus pirated.

As for cost, Steam has very huge discount sales. For many games, even AAA titles, you can buy a product that costs $50 SRP for 50% off or even more. Most people do not resell PC games, so there's little reason to avoid using Steam. You can still buy physical copes if you like and simply activate them on Steam.

Hmmm.... I always hated that mod - The game wasn't made for it.

Personally, I prefered Francesco's mod.

I did a little artwork for him at the time. I think he was burned out on it in the end. I was working doing other projects and left oblivion for a bit.

I heard Bethesda employed him? But i don`t really know.

My original account is busted by hacks so can`t contact him at all through here.

I see nothing in it for me at all except I have to have internet acess to install and I end up with bloatware stuffing up my PC performance.

Though sadly Skyrim will not play without steam, and I have a feeling there will be more and more games like that in the future.

About as nonintrusive as Therris' sponsorship of Barenziah to the Thieves' Guild, maybe.

It is incredible what modders and tool programmers have managed to do for Skyrim, even without the CK. We already can see lots of good stuff now. Can't wait to see what this year will bring.

Gee, why is it I learned 6502 assembler on my C=64 and why is it a large # of games were written as such on the C=64?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_64_software

"Unfortunately, the onboard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_BASIC programming language offered no easy way to tap the machine's advanced graphics and sound capabilities. Accessing these associated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_address to make use of the advanced features required using the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEEK_and_POKE commands, third party BASIC extensions, such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simons%27_BASIC, or to program in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assembly_language"

Also, the NES was a 6502 and many games were written in assembly.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6163518/nes-game-development-asm6-tutorials
http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/6145/what-programming-language-was-super-mario-bros-written-in

But yes, today's compilers do a great job of optimizing code. With the sheer # of instructions supported by EM64_T in modern processors, it's really not reasonable to write raw assembly for doing anything other than device drivers and low level bootstrapping.

--Randall