I just laugh at Stonedsoul's pedigree of RPGing... started way back on a console in 2001? RPGs began with paper and pencil. And they had PC RPGs in the 80s. There is no technological boundary to creating an immersive RPG experience. Bethesda chose to make the game like this... they tried something a little different. Still an RPG. And you do affect the world. You save it. I think I did anyway.

It is an RPG. A role-playing game.

... I often get puzzled as to whether "a" or "an" should be used too... but in the end, I type it the way I say it, and I say "an RPG", because I'm pronouncing the letters.
SO... that is what I'd advocate to others. It just looks wrong otherwise.

Oh... and don't compare standard WRPGs to either JRPGs nor MMOs. Ok? Totally different game.






Not sure what D&D has to do with this.
I figure at least half of us have engaged in D&D at some point or other... though editions may vary. I've played every one except 4th ed so far.

Yes, it's really, really an RPG. Perhaps with emphasis on bits you don't care for, that is fine. Not all RPGs are the same, and liking one type of RPG doesn't mean you care for another. It happens.
I don't care much for Bioware's graphic romance novels with endless waffle, occasional battles and no freedom at all on where to go. Others prefer that sort of RPG and don't care much for what TES does. And believe it or not, there are even people out there who can appreciate both and play what they want depending on their mood. It's a strange world, isn't it?

It's a 'modern', and not a 'classic', RPG. Basically, it's an action-adventure game with some 'classic' RPG elements.

No videogame is actually an RPG.

And before you guys trot out your wiki links...spare me. I can't spread the sun on my toast just because 3 billion strangers assure me that it is made of butter.

Amen...

Depends on if you're talking Dragon Age Origins (would be awesome) or Dragon Age 2 (would not be 'awesome').

Let me see:

- I can roleplay. check
- Things I do change the world. check
- Character progression. check
- Quest lines and side quests. check
- dungeon crawling. check
- dragons. double check


Yep, Skyrim is an RPG.

Can we move on now?

I was talking abou Dragon age origins;A game with such a gameplay and the freedom of Skyrim+the plot,Lore and options like DA:origins would be surely the best RPG ever made.

I just got Skyrim but as a legacy TES game, so I found this question new and well written. From the promos I entered into this world not expecting much but combat. My first 5 hours was adventurous, and adventure is the essential role play I am after. Anyway I'll look for the OP's critique in game, though as it is loading to my home puter I am reminded of WoW and not my Molliya of Morrowind.

Back in the ancient days of RPG (80s-90s) there were fantastically linear JRPGs, some branching plot stuff, alot of tactical-combat/strategy RPGs, and shallow combat grinders.

In the more modern days of RPG there have been fantastically linear JRPGs, some branching plot stuff, tactical-combat/strategy RPGs, and shallow combat grinders. Perhaps in different proportions.


That's how "variety" works. And differences between developers. I expect different things from Bioware, Bethesda, Square, and Blizzard. I don't expect all of them to say "Gee, Bioware loves their karma/morality meters! Let's all jump on that bandwagon, too!"

Blatant SWTOR ad. Nice try.

You mean the 1970s

Skyrim is definately lazy when it comes to the quest writing.

The game lets you define your characters fighting style, but it absolutely does not let you define your characters morals or motivations. You can't even ever simply say no to a guy who's making a proposition to you that you don't agree with. Whoop, in the quest log it goes, and there it shall remain until you just ditch your pretenses that the game lets you be who you want to be and adopt the alignment the quest favors for the time being.


This isn't about wanting a Karma Meter, I like the fact that Skyrim doesn't have one, it's about the fact that just because a game doesn't keep track of your Karma it shouldn't simply assume that characters have no personality what so ever and would never try to resolve a quest in a different way than what the questgiver says.

I wanted to make a thief who is a sophisticated burglar who steals more for sport than anything else, who takes only from the rich and gives to the poor. First quest with the thieves guild: Frame some random merchant, you're not allowed to ask why. Second quest: Shake down a few poor merchants by stealing their religious icons, smashing their priceless possessions and threatening their family. It just keeps going like that, conduct various acts of sabotage to run people out of business and so on... Where in all that is there room for my noble thief? Answer: There isn't any. The game simply forces me to take on the persona of a thug. Every once in a while it will throw in a pathetic attempt at making me feel justified by making the people I'm harming unlikable in some way.

It's just atrociously bad writing.

Lol... role...playing...game... There is no purer form of RPG then Bethesda games ... Dragon age is a very intricate storybook or fantasy movie rip-off, that gives you the illusion of freedom. Skyrim let's you go where you want, when you want to, while doing it the way you want it to be done. They could push it futher, add more gameplay stuff that is not necessarily combat related that would make this game very awesome. They Could also go back to a more Daggerfall approach to the storyline and make it crazy complicated... Still wouldnt change the fact that skyrim is an awesome RPG. If you think its not... your not playing this game in the right mind-set evidently.

Oh... and final fantasy games are not a reference if you intend to support your "RPG-experience". There linear as all fudge.

Skyrim lets you be what you want, but it doesn't let you be WHO you want, because whenever you get to a point in the game where a quest asks something unethical of you, where you have to harm someone else to get what you want it simply doesn't give you the option to find another way, or even to just abandon the quest altogether.

I've seen diverging options all over the place on what a CRPG actually is. They fall into three main camps.

You have skills you can put points into (industry definition)
1) A quasi interactive movie with a definitive beginning, middle, and end; fixed roles and characters (Japanese)
2) Choose your own adventure and outcome based on fixed paths in a well defined narrative (Bioware)
3) Do or don't do whatever you want in a simulated world with a large set of available scenarios for any type of character you choose (Bethesda)

Internally I tend to embrace the third definition and don't really view the two as true RPG's, since you have no ability to define your own character or opt out of any scenarios. You're just stuck following a fixed narrative with no real choice; because there is nothing else to the game except maybe a handful of inconsequential side quests. I know some people don't consider Bethesda games RPG's at all, because even though every quest is optional and you can most often stop talking to the quest giver and cut their head off mid sentence...you can't choose whether you're mean or nice to them much of the time and there isn't always multiple resolutions. Or, if there are they aren't always in dialogue options. You might be able to say pick-pocket a letter off someone else, and use it to blackmail someone to make things turn out different. But, none of this is done through cut-scenes or made evident in dialogue choices...so to most modern gamers those choices don't exist. I've also heard that they use "player skill" too much over character skill, but that's not even a factor as far as I'm concerned.

How you personally define an RPG is pretty irrelevant to whether or not you enjoy something, at the end of the day.

Lefting some Months for skyrim the desenvolper's said that they would sacrifice LORE for gameplay,alot of people said ok.So we must deal with that....

This is pure truth.

Just one exemple amongst hundreds. I have spent more time in Skyrim thinking up wacky justifications for my out-of-character actions then I did deciding how he would WANT to react (because I can't do anything about that). It seems to me that "you can be what you want to be... as long as you want to be what Bethesda's writers thought you wanted to be".

Skyrim's an action adventure RPG.

with the term RPG used loosely since you can't change anything, your actions mean squat, the game defines your character for you (dialoge options range in the total of one choice 90% of the time)

Its an Action adventure Dungeon Crawler.

Skyrim would be awesome... if it were all text. Spoken dialog limits the openess of a game. Quests become more linear and one sided. I Would take crazy amounts of spoken dialog to go back to a daggerfall complexity. They just can't do it. I vote that they should go back to a baldur's gate level dialog... maybe a little more. Sometimes they talk, sometimes they don'T. When there's to much possibilities depending on to much stuff... make them stop talking and start branching out... when they say something common to all possibilities, make them talk again.

Bethesda will never do this, because its so "passé" and would disgust the most open-minded of console players, but remains the only solution to your " i want to play a good thief, not what the quest-line forces me to be".

Where's is written that your thief must join the thieves guild? If you don't agree with their methods go on your own path.

most people want to roleplay but completely lack the ability to do so. The proble here is with you not the game.

If you want good dialogue you should try vampire the masquerade : bloodlines.