The only other country that can be considered "Free Tamriel" is Hammerfall, and since they just managed to fight the Dominion to a stalemate rather than a true victory, I doubt they'd be rushing to leave their own borders undefended in order to support "Free Skyrim."

The Dominion has free reign to travel through any other province it wants other than Hammerfall, there wouldn't really be any logistical chore of getting into Skyrim by land, and having just spent a great deal of their forces chasing out the Empire, it's unlikely they'd be able to repel the Dominion. Keep in mind what little Thalmor presence we see in Skyrim is just that, very little. Numerous NPCs on the Imperial side of things and a few on the Stormcloak side of things fully admit the Thalmor isn't there en masse because the Empire is "doing their job" for them, which previously involved turning a blind eye whenever they feasibly could up until the Civil War.

Oops, sorry. Black Marsh is a part of "Free Tamriel" as well, but they're not overly fond of anyone so I doubt they'd be much help either.

Yes, I know. I didn't really mean "take it" - I should said "vie for it" instead. Throw your name in the hat, etc. Either way the end-game of the specific quest would be your character becoming High King. I'm almost always a Nord in my playthroughs.. it could be a race-exclusive quest and I'm sure something could easily be written that ties the Dragonborn to a noble blood line in some way. EIther way, probably a task for a creative modder, anyway. It just feels kind of wasted to have the Jagged Crown and not be able to do anything with it aside from hand it to one of two guys or keep it for yourself (where it still means nothing).

What choice will they have?

Since there is in-game dialogue about Ulfric contacting High Rock for an alliance, the original statement is sound. Also he apparently declines to attack Solitude if the emperor is in port because he doesn't want to antagonize Cyrodiil too much. That's a diplomatic mind, not an isolationist.

Hello, silver? And other minerals. This becomes a BFD if you do the "Season Unending" quest and there is a fight over who gets Markarth. Although I think Skyrim's main "export" is warriors. As for their food imports, if indeed Cyrodiil refuses to trade with an independent Skyrim (I don't see how they can) or it otherwise goes pear shaped, Skyrim will have to learn to get by on their native resources. Medieval Scandinavia did import, but mostly luxury goods; they fed themselves very well on local seafood, grains and milk.

All this beside the fact that the East Empire Company continues to have a presence in Windhelm throughout the game, including after a Stormcloak victory.

I respect that the Stormcloaks want more freedom, but it's not happening. Not this way. The Empire and Skyrim go together. If the Empire loses one of its provinces, especially in a time like this, it will be exceptionally weakened and an easy target to the Thalmor. On the other hand, I don't believe that Skyrim could do well independent. Not with Ulfric as a leader, that's for sure. Also an easy target to the Thalmor.

Exactly. That's one thing that people seem to confuse about Ulfric. It's clear that his goal is to have Skyrim govern Skyrim. It has nothing to do with kicking out every other "race" as some people seem to think is the goal. Sure, some of the Nords and Stormcloaks may want that, but it's clear that Ulfric just wants the Nords to be able to govern themselves without Cyrodill or the AD telling them how to live their lives.

the PC is the Dragonborn! between Xenofobic elves, a powerlust Nord and a dead Emperor, the dragonborn is the only salvation to the empire of Men! all hail the dragonborn! blessed by akatosh, supreme sovereign of the Empire of Tamriel and all her holdings >D

Yeah, a "take it by force" quest-line would be pretty awesome. You could amass your own faction of followers and TAKE the crown for yourself. Kingsmoot be damned!

Skyrim is, by lore definition even more than shown in game, a very inhospitable terrain. I think terrain alone would be the biggest deterrent to any outside invasion. Also what we see in Skyrim is that the Dominion is very short on manpower. One example is the massacre at the Talos shrine- the note on the justiciar's body says he's not getting any support because they are spread too thin. They've purged their own ranks and are trying to take over the continent, that doesn't leave a lot of manpower.

That said, Ulfric does say after a Stormcloak victory that his first worry is that the Dominion will invade before they're ready.

By "free Tamriel" I meant those territories/countries not already controlled by the Dominion, which is more than just Hammerfell (and an independent Skyrim). Unless you're willing to admit that the Empire really *is* so firmly under the thumb of the Thalmor that it would allow them to just march right across the continent and set up shop in Skyrim despite what that would do the Empire's chances in the war they are supposedly already planning for...


The only way for them to get to Skyrim by land is through either hostile or Imperial territory. If the Empire is willing to let Dominion armies march into and through Imperial lands unopposed in an attempt to take control of any more of Tamriel than they've already got, then the Empire is not worth fighting for or saving, and any talk of how they are the "best hope" in any future conflict with the Thalmor is nonsense.

In theory? The underhanded tactic would be to shrug their shoulders at the Dominion over the matters of Skyrim and let the elves travel freely through to Skyrim as they did with Hammerfall. Best case scenario is Skyrim pulls a Hammerfall : The Sequel and fights the Dominion to a standstill, worst case scenario since they've already been weakened by the civil war and constant dragon attacks, they're forced to surrender.

Either way, the Dominion has to expend their forces and leave their backs wide open to reprisals to Hammerfall, Cyrodil, and High Rock. Skyrim might get that last second alliance it would hope for in that scenario, but it would be bought in even more Nord blood.

And, as long as we're making reference to things Ulfric says as a reason to back him, he gives an exceptional reason NOT to if you happen to meet him in a certain afterlife scenario.

now THAT would be an amazing quest \o/
take the jagged crown to ourselves and start our on rebelion for the Throne of Skyrim (an quest avaliable after you have beated the Main quest and not delivered the jagged crown to anyone to balance things :3)
to not have lore complications, they would them only refer to us as the Dragonborn (just like the eternal champion, the nerevarine, the champion of Cyrodiil) xP

Most military engagements in the Elder Scrolls series are ones of underhanded opportunity. So yes, I think they'd use a RECENTLY SECEDED COUNTRY that VIOLENTLY OUSTED THEIR FORCES as bait for payback. "Wait for my old enemy to be fighting my most recent one so I can get revenge" has been kind of a historical cornerstone in Tamriel for every country at least once.

The Empire is under NO obligation to publically support any nation that doesn't belong to The Empire, just as modern day alliances aren't obligated to help anyone that doesn't fall under their jurisdiction. If Ulfric wants to stand alone against the Dominion, that's his perogative. Hammerfall is at a standstill and much of it's countryside was devastated, and I doubt High Rock, still being a loyal nation in the Empire, would risk painting an international bullseye on it's shores by pledging to help an independent Skyrim. That'd just open them up to being the next occupied nation, one that is geographically far easier to conquer.

While I don't care much for the current Emperor, I think Bethesda was already fixed to replace him due to certain questlines, and even if not, no man willingly accepts such a blatantly one-sided treaty if he doesn't have a few tricks up his sleeve.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. You mean that Cyrodiil will willingly allow the Dominion to invade Skyrim from its territory? That would not just be crazy, it would be flippin insane. But maybe I'm not following you.

No he doesn't. Or if he does, then Rikke's words of regret when you meet her in Sovngarde cancel his out. All the souls in the mist are in despair, their comments reflect their anguish. Talk to Kodlak, for instance, and you get a similarly emo response.

That would be awesome, it would be best if depending on how many places you're a thane in or how many people and factions you helped it'd increase your chance of success.

oh please THIS, what most frustate me in skyrim is that every thing is "glory or death", you can't fail any quest beyond die u-U
would be amazing a really dificult quest like that when you can fail too \o/

The Empire is under no obligation to help any territory that isn't the Empire. The Dominion leaving it's back wide open to Cyrodil is a good thing.

So basically the Empire would be letting the Thalmor march through Tamriel, take control of Skyrim, from which they can now threaten both High Rock and Cyrodiil from yet another direction, as a means of... making their position in the coming war stronger?

"I know, let's completely deprive ourselves of a potential ally and get ourselves even MORE surrounded by the enemy. That'll show 'em who's boss!" *rolls eyes*

It could very well be as you say, and it's also open to interpretation. My take on it was that he realized all he did was weaken two individual bodies that could have fought together against the Thalmor.

But, my wording was wrong and no, that isn't a reason NOT to back him. That is, instead, a reason to lament the whole stupid war in the first place.

I failed a quest at this museum, as soon as a certain cult was mentioned a certain guy lost his head, but ya, most quests you only fail if you die.

You don't usually come across imperial supporters who argue that the empire actually IS the rump state of the Thalmor that they appear to be. Allow me to adjust my expectations.

You think that having a Dominion army enter Cyrodiil and use it as a base from which to attack Cyrodiil's northern neighbor is somehow good for Cyrodiil? There is zero strategic sense to that.

well, to far as i know, a treaty is not a military alliance, and i don't remember of notthing in the WGC that referers let the thalmor armies march freely through the empire '-'

The majority of people support the Civil War for the wrong reasons. People decide to join the Stormcloaks because the Imperials attempted to execute the player in the beginning of the game. While other people join the Legion and support the Imperials because they fall under the delusion that the Stormcloaks are nothing more than a group of bigoted racists; or the belief that a united Empire is the only way to defeat the Aldmeri Dominion.

The Civil War discussion is one of the most controversial on this forum, and it is sad to see that so many have such shallow values.

Except they're not an ally anymore. Potentially in the future, sure. And the Empire and the Dominion are currently at "peace" due to the treaty. And any army would be absolutely insane to re-kindle an old war from the middle of soon-to-be-hostile territory so soon after fighting another one. The Dominion would be in absolutely no shape to threaten Cyrodil or High Rock without committing enough forces to a Skyrim campaign to leave themselves utterly defenseless against reprisals against the Summerset Isles, Valenwood or Elsewyr from Hammerfall or Cyrodil.

Strategically, they could only commit enough forces that they think would be needed for the Skyrim campaign, which after being weakened would be excellent targets for the Imperial Legion. The best thing is, most of the Thalmor believe themselves so utterly in the right and the Empire so absolutely committed to kissing their heels that they would never such a betrayal of the treaty coming after the Empire showed itself so willing to enforce it in Skyrim.

Lol, I know... I fought for the other guys and even I have more faith in the Empire's future actions than that.

That argument is making it sound like they're not only assuming the position but also buying the lube with their own money.

Yes, that's true. When replaying my Stormcloak character I did the MQ fairly early and was glad to find a mostly empty mist. Nobody, including Tullius as well, understands what is happening with Alduin until Esbern explains it to them in "Season Unending." And then both sides do agree to a truce until the dragonborn can sort Alduin out.