There's tons of strategic sense in "Let your bigger enemy become bogged down by a less substantial one before attacking." Keep in mind, Tamriel doesn't exactly subscribe to our notions of modern day warfare "etiquette."

Plus it seems people think I mean "let the Thalmor use Cyrodil", no, I just mean let them travel on through. Concede a section of the Imperial Province? Absolutely not. Don't provoke another war until the Thalmor are exhausted and spent from smashing into Skyrim? Definitely yes.

Except the thalmor dossier completely states the opposite. They're fearful of either side winning. Stormcloak OR legion. Because the Thalmor aren't idiots like you seem to think. They're not going to expose a fighting force to an easy flank and absolute route. Especially when they have few forces to call on to begin with.

In corroboration, Celan, it would be very difficult to for the Aldmeri Dominion to conquer Skyrim. The only people to ever do so in the past were the Nords themselves. To launch a naval invasion, the Aldmeri Dominion would have to traverse the treacherous Sea of Ghosts. Eastmarch and The Rift are protected by the Velothi and Jerall mountains, Marakarth is also very mountainous and home to the Forsworn. Their best option is to cross through Cyrodiil and into Falkreath Hold, which would allow the Nords to establish an effective ambush.

"Travel through" = "let them use." Armies don't move on a dime. Inviting a Dominion army to enter Cyrodiil for any reason would be incredibly foolish.

You have a very pessimistic view of Skyrim and Cyrodiil's future relationship.

edit- The more interesting question to me, and I think a more plausible scenario, is what Ulfric would do if it looked like Cyrodiil was about to fall. Would he invade in order to prevent that from happening?

Fair. I think the Thalmor show their idiocy more than enough throughout all the books and the in game bits and the in game bits, but fair.

By the way (in general), at no point did I state the Empire is the true blue only solution to the Thalmor and that everyone needs "all hands on deck." My only dream is the end of the Thalmor. I don't think either side goes about it perfectly, I just think the Stormcloak approach is a slightly weaker one.

I think Tamriel is in a major transition and, in truth, the Stormcloak approach is probably going to be the "canon" one, if they have to choose one. I think either the notion of "The Empire" is outdated in Bethesda's mind, or a third Empire is in the making. In the interest of pure, unbridled speculation I think the provinces are all going to rebel and "free" themselves, the Dominion won't really be expecting that, over-extend themselves or be opposed by a new confederation of nations.


Possibly. Frankly, and I say this as someone who played every game as a Nord, I'm kind of tired of the Nords, and I'd like to see a different nation shine in the great moment of darkness. From a writing standpoint it seems like they're setting Hammerfall up to be the heroes in that respect, but since everyone's kind of gotten their fair share of dramatic story writing and tension over all the games, there's no one more deserving than the other at the moment.

Except for...

• http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Corundum
  
• http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ebony
  
• http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Gold
  
• http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Iron
  
• http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Malachite (for creating http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Glass items)
  
• http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Moonstone (for creating http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Elven items)
  
• http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Orichalcum (for creating http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Orcish items)
  
• http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Silver
  
• http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Steel

As far as Thalmor troops in Skyrim....as a percentage of the population it is significant, but more importantly it would have to increase exponentially if they didn't have Imperial forces to back them up...of which there are even more of those.

And if we can postulate...by any possible stretch of the imagination...that Cyrodiil would allow Thalmor forces to cross its lands to invade Skyrim, then the Empire really is the toady-state/bum-boy to the Thalmor that some see it as. And the whole myth of re-arming and regrouping is just that--propaganda to allow TM and his vassals to stay in power and in the lap of luxury a little longer.

All of which have been found in other locations throughout the history of the games. I meant something utterly unique that the global trading market simply couldn't live without. I didn't really read any lore stating Skyrim was the world leader in any of those minerals, and the emphasis on them in game is generally only associated with short-term, localized markets due to the war, dragons and need for arms and armor for both.

Stalhrim would have been a good example of something indigenous to only Skyrim other than their chief 'export' of hardy, noble warriors. Not sure why Bethesda decided it shouldn't make an appearance after Bloodmoon hyped it up.

I kind of feel that about the imperials. It would be much more interesting IMO to see old Cyrod return to its roots as well, the Nibenese and the Colovians- messy, no doubt, but more interesting. Also to see how they handle relations with their old provinces when they don't just get to resort to playing Charles in Charge.

I'm ambivalent towards Imperials just because they're basically the genetic melting pot race and thus utterly uninteresting. They've created their own culture, for sure, but it borrowed heavily from their combined heritage. I agree with you that "Nibenese" and "Colovians" would definitely spice it up, but just "The Imperials" is tedious and boring. Prior to Morrowind there wasn't even an Imperial race because they were just an amalgamation of Nord/Breton/Redguards.

Even their racial sets kind of capitalize on that "Eh, whatever you wanna do" in that their starting bonuses could compliment any path a new player wanted to go down and their racial Power tended to be just kind of generically ho-hum useful.

This. The Stormcloak side should have had more guerilla missions. Like ambushes and sabotage, that result in large explosions.

The Empire should have some missions that had you defend from ambushes, and some assaults on Stormcloak positions. I think my favorite part of the Civil War questline was defending Whiterun.

I do not think a stalemate would be the best possible outcome in a war between Skyrim and the Aldmeri Dominion. Skyrim is much farther from Summerset Isle than southern Hammerfell is. The reason why the Aldmeri Dominion failed to conquer Hammerfell was because any attempt to cross the Alik'r Desert (which embodies the center of the province) was thwarted by the Redguards. The best way to invade Skyrim is from the south, which means that the Aldmeri Dominion would have to occupy Cyrodiil.

Although the Empire isn't obligated to assist non-client states, the phrase "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" would ring true in this scenario. I'm sure you've completed the Legion questline, the Empire intends on attacking the Aldmeri Dominion again. This would be a perfect opportunity, whatever Aldmeri forces that were mustered would be caught in a crossfire between the Nords and the Imperials, an outcome similar the Red Ring would likely result.

Metals are always a foundation commodity for feudal societies. Especially one supposedly preparing for the Big War with the AD.

And as it is, with Skyrim a vassal state, the Empire gets these ores for less than they might if they had to buy it on the open market.

LOL

It's funny, it seems that any thread that mentions the words Empire, Ulfric Stormcloak, Markarth Incident, Legion, Stormcloaks, etc, turns into a Stormcloaks vs. Imperials discussion. This thread was originally talking about ways to improve the respective questlines, and those of us passionate enough about the war have already turned into our own argument. Oh well.

Just means that despite claims Bethesda didn't supply "enough," they certainly supplied enough to get a lot of people really motivated on either side of the discussion.

Juniper berries.. I think they only grow in Skyrim.

Or.... Dragon Bones/Scales? By Talos, I certainly have enough in Hjerim to start my own fully funded trading company.

And so far the "neener, neener" and the "yes, it is, no, it's not" crowd so often found in these forums haven't found this thread. For my own "undecided-but-leaning-Stormcloak" character that is truly a blessing. Heck, just being able to discuss this issue in a mature and measured fashion with a mature and deliberate group, is a blessing.

(hope I don't have to eat my words too soon )