i dont think there is a side really, beth had to make a very double-sided argument, otherwise it wouldnt of made all of these massive arguments. the stormcloaks really arnt that bad, that stone-fist bloak isint even a stormclak, hes just some nord idiot swaggering around because he knows he can, have you ever met galmar ? hes an incrediable nord, and ulfric- for his faults is very brave, hes the first guy to actually say "hang on a minute why am i snivelling at the hig-elves pointy shoes?" the empire have no choice but to fight him and discredit him, but the empire knows its weak and a shadow of what it was, at the end of the stormcloak questline when you are about to kill tully, he is like "you know this is what they wanted"- even the empire regonises the thalmore arnt there big cuddly pals.

but every faction has split personalities, if oyu look at the thalmore some of them or a lot of them are indecent idiots, but if you speak to elewen - ok yeah shes still a bigheaded irritateing [censored]- but shes not like "ow the humans are filthy animals" she actually has some resonable enough ideas, she dosent discredit talos and say he was a cowardly nord, she admits he was a great, wise warrior , she merely says she dosent belive he became a god. which is reasonable enough.

but, you know, its up to you which side you want

mirocu ....MIROCU ITS YOU?!?!?!

oww my old OB pal XD, ow have you joined the skyrim fans now? ow that is supreme

please reply !

fisher

Nobody in the game does.

if only there was a way to get rid of both Ulfric and the empire. too bad the closest thing to that is the dumb peace confrence.

both sides have the same quest, with very few differences.

The Stormcloaks are not racist.

Nor are they fascists.

Nor are they Nazis.

They don't like to prance about in their underwear, either.

They're war veterans who don't like being told what to think.


He was tortured by them in the Great War, and is still in their files.

If there are things that you like about each side then you could create two characters and have one join the Legion and the other join the Stormcloaks

*edit* never mind

I think Ulfric is very small minded. I think the areas controlled by the empire are more orderly with less crime then Stormcloak controlled areas. But the Emprie is saddled with the Thalmor

I am going through the same decision making process the first poster is going through. There is something about the Blades that makes me uncomfortable so I sort of want to give the Thalmor a second chance using a sort of anti-blade line of thinking.

In the end it was the posters in this very forum who decided for me. I found myself disagreeing with people claiming Ulfric wasn't a racist.

In my first two play throughs I stayed away from the Civil War. My third time through I'm chosing the Imperials because I think the supporters of Ulfric are not my cup of tea.

You call Markarth more orderly and less crime-ridden?

Oh, and I do remember you from other threads. You're the one who wanted to lecture all of us on our RL ethics because of choices in a video game. You're right- that's not my cup of tea.

The stormcloaks are not racist, nor are they "nazis". If any thing, the empire is a puppet-state for a group more akin to the 3rd reich, the AD, who want to wipe out all humans to fufill some sick vision of the future they follow(like the nazis).As for the racism against the Dark elves, they are justified, they are refugee's, who get a nice spot behind the safty of the city walls, do nothing to support the war, and dont do anything to earn the trust of the people who have taken them in. There is obviously a ring of imperial spies among them too, if you go into that bar. I dont know what ulfric will do when he finds it, but we all ready know what the empire would do, round up the owners, and frequent patrons, and lob off thier heads. As to thier deplorable conditions, where els in the city would they go?The city's filled up, no more homes in the nice parts of town, they should be happy with what they got.

So yeah, many arguments against the SC are a little off. But, I dont like ulfric, mainly after reading the report on him in the AD embassy. Im choosing neither right now untill they anounce dlc, just want to be sure none of it will have any thing to do with it before I choose.

@TophertheAssassin, my main character is a wood elf, and looks very similar to yours...just thought Id say that.Wood Elvs ftw!

remembering that commenting on another thread is forbidden, I have edited my post.

Ulfric might not be racist, but their is definitely alot of prejudice against dunmer and argonians in Windhelm. The dunmer were given homes after morrowind spontaneously combusted, so they shouldn't have expected to be treated like royalty. But the nords acting so hostile towards them is a little uncalled for. And I know that the argonians live outside on the docks so they don't fight with the dunmer, but they should atleast be paid fair wages and given something besides a broken down shack to live in.

Maybe- I'm older than the average person on this board, if that's what you mean. I believe it was Serethil whom you decided was being offensive simply for asking you to stick to the game rather than talking about real world parallels that simply don't hold. Not that it's here nor there.

There is a quest you get from Scouts-Many-Marshes to confront the shipping guy about his wage discrimination. He knuckles under pretty easily. He's also not nearly as rude about the Argonians as his Dunmer employee, ironically the woman you see getting harassed by Nords as you enter Windhelm.

I just started a new character and never heard this before. After you leaving the torture room with Hadvar, if you click him, he says "These bastards call themselves imperial legionairres." (referring to the mage torturer and his assistant). I knew Hadvar and Rikke were Nords and questioned their own beliefs, but never heard it so explicitly.

Pretty much symbolizes how complicated the situation is.

Cant we gentlemen agree that both sides are Ass holes?

This. And let their gods sort them.

The quests may be similar, but the characters are not. Ulfric and Tullius really couldn't be more different. One's a passionate, emotional leader. One's a dispassionate robot. One wants to upheave everything you pretty much know about Tamriel. The other think it's an idea worth preserving. Both are following in Tiber Septim's footsteps in their own way. And another thing, there's no Rikke on the Stormcloak side. Galmar is not just her opposite.. he's a completely different beast.

Korr.... I didn't find them very different. Yeah Ulfric spouts a bunch of garbage. But he's still just Beth's robot....

No

Yes, but the question is which side of the *ss you gonnd sided? left or right?

But if both sides are @$$holes, then wouldn't the left and right sides of each represent the different extremes of that group?

Legion. They all still believe in Talos. They just keep it quiet. I can't take sides with Ulfric if he's too dump to figure that out.

Purple.

Honestly i went with Stormcloacks they have the Empire leaking the Dominion ass and preventing them from their traditions...Talos worship is forbidden. It’s like someone comes in and prevent us to believe in Jesus right now ...although i know they sometimes look like a bunch of racist the point is that The Empire signed a peace treaty with the Dominion that looks more like a terms of surrender. They impose their own beliefs on people and ban others with punishment of death. It is an aging archaic government that has grown so corrupt its no wonder provinces want to break off from them. So there you have it i believe the stormcloaks have a fair cause and i think that an alliance between stormcloaks and imperials against the thalmor would be the right thing to do....but no ...the empire chose to ally with the real enemy ""the thalmor" and go against one of their own province........i hate the state of the empire in this game ...i really do so [censored] ‘em all and skyrim will rise in arms with the "http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Dovahkiin" and the dragons on their side to reclaim what they want to take away....

Thing is if you follow the Hadvar out of Helgen and talk to Alvor he will imply that they were all worshiping Talos in secret anyway and the Thalmor didn't really care. It wasn't until Ulric made an issue of it that there was a crack down on the worship. Alvor even blames Ulric for the crack down happening and being a major cause of the war.

To me it is just a matter of flavor I want for my character. I personally love tradition and will generally side with the Stormcloaks if playing a Nord. Just listening to the reason the Stormcloak soldiers have for joining in their camps is enough to make you want to fight back. As a non-Nord I really have little reason to join the Stormcloaks unless I just really hate the Empire for some other reason.

Alvor is not a reliable source in this regard. He's a blacksmith in a small village in the middle of nowhere.
Moreover, his position is that of a fool. Everything is fine until it blows up in your face? I guess religious persecution is only a problem if you get caught, huh?
It's a really insidious argument when you think about it - Injustices are fine as long as they don't affect you, and if someone tries to do something about them they're the bad guys for disturbing your life.

The Thalmor are serious about the ban. The events at Markarth were probably engineered in part by them as an excuse to crack down in Skyrim. If there'd been no Ulfric to manipulate it would've been something else, with the same result.