I assume Brunwulf had to manage an entire war too?

Not manage a war, but preparing for one, if I'm not mistaken Cecilff. According to his words..."I killed a lot of elves during the war, and I somehow survived. I guess that makes me a hero to them" And his less than sanguine view of the White Gold Concordant, and the seeds for the next war being sown as a result

You know what the best reason to side with the Empire is?


They have dragons all over their gear. It seems like dragons are everywhere in their symbols.

The stormcloaks have bears. Bears are nice and all, but I'm not sure why I should care. Did that just start off as the guard symbol for Windhelm? Or is it supposed to be about Ulfric himself? He's referred to as a "Bear" sometimes.


.. And yes, I'm serious. Screw the subtle political reasons we can debate for months over. Symbols are more important. One on side, you're actually wearing stuff that signifies who you are. On the other, you're just wearing something that signifies another guy (Ulfric).

Korr: The imperials wear dragons because of dragonblood emperors who no longer exist. The Medes are pretenders.

So what's the other jarls' excuse for neglecting matters in their holds?

We really don't know what the condition in Cyrodiil is as of now, let alone after a possible assassination of Mede. It sounds to me like you're running on past nostalgia for an empire that doesn't exist anymore. Also, there are no "provinces" any longer- just Skyrim and High Rock.

And I want no part of any emperor title.

That's what's so cool about our characters though. They may be pretenders, but you are not.

Even if you join the Stormcloaks, it's inevitable that you will take on the mantle eventually. There's no way that a dragonborn plays out their life as the "Adoring Fan" to some random NPC like Ulfric Stormcloak. Akatosh didn't go through all the trouble to send someone to do that. Even if Ulfric is useful for a time.

From my perspective, everything is being set up to repeat something similar to Septim's rise to power. No one knows if Talos was a rebel or imperial himself. No one knows if he truly tried to protect the emperor or assassinated him. No one knows much of anything. But we do know that he was an outsider, just like our characters, and became a dragonborn emperor.

And if I don't want to be emperor? That's the beauty of what Ulfric wants- people say he's ambitious, but as far as we know he doesn't have territorial designs on the neighboring states. Cyrodiil needs to sort itself out.

Also, the dovahkiin is the last dragonborn. You're a deus ex machina to save the world from Alduin. I wouldn't mind if they give people an option in future content to aspire to emperorship, but I'm not going to be happy if it's imposed on us.

Who cares what you want. Youre' dragonborn.


Kidding aside, it's sort of a responsibility. And the main theme of the game.


Aww..


http://static.zenimax.com/bethblog/oldcontent/Adoring-Fan.jpg

No, it's not. Saving the world is, and for me, liberating Skyrim. I know some people are nostalgic about the empire but I'm not. Good riddance to it and I sincerely hope TES moves on.

You're reading it wrong. I didn't say to save the Mede empire. Why is everything in some static state for you? Where it's about what you having to tolerate Mede? You can kill Mede as an imperial. It's just the same as the Septim empire not being the Reman empire. It'd be your empire. All the things that make up for a rise to power start in Skyrim. Just like Talos' significant battles started in Skyrim (like Sancre Tor).

You can not even play this game without the Greybeards themselves bestowing the "Stormcrown" to you. They've already declared you fit for leadership, like it or not. It won't be long until Nords start seeing you as a Dragon, like they did Talos. You can't escape it, Stormcloak devotee or not.

Leadership in Skyrim- and not even the kingship- certainly not of Tamriel. Did the HoC become emperor? You're the dragonborn because the gods sent someone to defeat Alduin, that's all.

That's not what dragonborn is, merely. It's always defined by the blessing given to Alessia. It's instrincally tied to leadership, and always has been in every game. Being a dragonslayer is only one part of it. Only the Dragonguard thought dragonslaying was what mattered. That's why Esbern devotes all his time to this aspect of dragonborn. He doesn't care about anything else.

I dont think becoming High King, or Emperor, should be forced on the PC at the end of any DLC or expansion packs. But I absolutely think there should be the option to become so. If tis forced, people will complain. If its left out, people will complain. Let the player decide. The Moot names you High King, or the Elder Council appoints you Emperor, you can accpet with honor, or gracefully decline. (I'm sure theres even a few people who would scoff at anyone trying to force a title on them, and kill them for such insulting behavior, then go off on their own.)

Throne of Bhaal had the option of you remaining mortal, or ascending to godhood. And depending on your actions throughout the course of the series, you would either be a dark and evil god, or you would bring balance and order, even as the god of death.

And where does it say this in Skyrim? When you talk to Paarthurnax you only talk about your destiny being to defeat Alduin, not a destiny to rule over Tamriel. It's fine if that's what you envision your character doing, but I don't see anything in the game or lore that makes that "the" destiny of the dovahkiin. Everything has pointed to the empire ending, and it's time to move on to something else, not just regurgitate the old stuff.

How has everything pointed to the empire ending? Don't mistake one playthrough for how millions of people play. You're given a choice. I say this nicely, but you don't seem to have an easy time to embrace this concept. You know how hard it is to make a game, right? Even one with as short a questline as the Civil, there are still hundreds of hours invested in it. All the scripting, sequences, set pieces, characters, armor models, acting, etc.. They don't just put that stuff in there so you can declare it all meaningless for everyone else. That's a lot of time put into things just to cater to one set of players in the end.

Not just in Skyrim, but in previous games- for instance, Talos himself appearing in Morrowind to say that the empire was finished- and the dissolution of the empire between Oblivion and Skyrim. Don't take this the wrong way, but you're holding onto the past. The series should move on. Nevertheless I already said I don't mind if they give the option for the dovahkiin to conquer Cyrodiil and become a new emperor of whatever's left. I just want my game to have some meaning, too. And it's not that.

Also, since you're the last dragonborn, you're not going to be able to renew the dragonblood emperors. The dovahkiin is not a Septim. You can set up your own dynasty if you like, but I don't recall that any of the other games had the hero become an emperor either- correct me if I'm wrong- so I really wouldn't get your hopes up that this is what Bethesda intends.

Believe me, I'm not holding on to the past. I barely played Morrowind and Oblivion. Well, I played them, but I didn't play the main quests much. Unless you count being a sociopath the main quest. I just know that no game developer wastes this much time just to throw stuff away.

I never said the dovakhiin was a Septim. He or she is like a Septim though in that Septim wasn't supposed to be a dovahkiin either. A complete random.. a fluke who came out of nowhere.

As for not recalling any games that did this.. that's kind of my main reason for even talking about this. Every damn game (almost), you're rescuing or restoring the empire. Now you're put in a similar position as those leaders from a player perspective. It's a twist on the old theme.

But I'm not restoring the empire. If anything, I'm destroying it, except even that isn't accurate because in my view there simply is no empire any longer.

"Empire" =/= all that is good and noble in the world

Use whatever word you wish. It's going to be the same thing, in the end. A representative political and military force of human interests, more or less. Even if you side with the Stormcloaks, it will expand.

Define "it." If what you're talking about is an alliance of free nations, I'm all for it. If you're talking about one of them ruling over the others from some centralized government, I'm not a fan of the idea. I bet a lot of the empire's lost provinces wouldn't be, either.

How many TES games have you played? You always talk about the empire in a strangely negative light, and then want to move on 'from the past".. like all the game settings were crap or something. It's got negatives, but you seem to impose more outside definitions into it. It's almost always been an alliance of nations, except with caveats. I can't think of an actual real parallel to it, but this isn't Star Wars or Rome's empire. The developers portray it so positively that in their very first game, you have to rescue an emperor from a rebel. Oh, wait, that was pretty much Oblivion too. The empire represents "civilization", with some of the misguided faults that go along with that. It's not the big bad tyrant. Even if you don't believe that, on the Stormcloak side you're still fighting to worship an emperor. It makes no sense to side with them if you don't believe in following his footsteps even a little bit. Even to the crazies like Heimskr, he's what humans should aspire to.

Yeah but it would make for a good TES game. Getting thrown in to a middle of a conflict. Although the idea of United Nations sound good in real life.

It is a big bad tyrant- who was in a golden age that made him sort of benevolent, if you didn't cross him. It still doesn't change the nature of the thing. Tiber Septim stomped on people, he depopulated whole regions, the empire re-made the economy in Black Marsh and many people starved because of it. There were advantages to the empire, a Pax Septima, but that doesn't change what it is. I don't have any nostalgia for it, either.

I played Oblivion and this aspect of it was not to my liking- the sort of twee, happy-go-lucky image of the empire that it presented. The actual lore is far bloodier. In Skyrim I see the series moving towards a grittier and more realistic view and I approve. The Nords were always my favorite so seeing them be able to rule themselves is satisfying. That would be less so if they turn around and institute a new colonialism on the old model. That would not only be dispiriting, it would be boring. Been there, done that, to death.

Talos is not Tiber Septim anymore, so restoring his worship is neither here nor there.

I don't know what to believe about Talos myself. There's usually two different stories to events. I don't think he was a tyrant though. If only for the fact that he and Wulfarth parted ways. Wulfarth was the bloodthirsty "elf killer" type. He got pissed that Septim decided to make concessions with them. If he was so hung up on dominating the world, then he and Wulfarth would have never ended badly.

Same thing goes for Alessia. She was warlike herself at one point, but tempered it later by making concessions with mer. She wouldn't have even got the empire off the ground if she was overly militant. In both cases, Septim's and Alessia's empires only worked because they could make peace with people.

They still ruled over them or else. Your "civilization" is imposing Nord-Cyrodiilic culture on other lands whether they want it or not. And anyway, since civilization came from the Nords, using that as a justification why they shouldn't rule themselves doesn't really fly. As some Stormcloaks will tell you- "Skyrim is the birthplace of humanity, the birthplace of honor"- they don't need to bend the knee to Cyrodiil to have it.

Have to agree with Celan on this one, Korr....