On a sidenote, I'm glad they've written it in a way where you can't please everyone. Because if you can, then most players will do just that.

I recall David Gaider (writer for Dragon Age) regretting that he wrote that loophole in the quest involving "Connor", the demon possessed kid. You had a choice to kill the kid, let his mom die saving him in a nasty blood magic ritual, or simply going to the mage tower (which you would anyways) and getting the extra lyrium to avoid both the ritual and to save the kid. After looking at online stats, he found that almost everyone took the third option. The best compromise type of solution. He wishes now that he would have forced people to kill the kid or kill the mom.. he was trying to convey just how dangerous magic was in his world, and that you can't get a clean way out of some messes. This is why he wrote Dragon Age 2 the way he eventually did... which is full of bittersweet victories.

And this is what Bethesda has done as well.

Most players can't resist using RPGs or their own fan fiction as a sort of hero wish fulfillment, where they come into places and do everything perfectly, and everyone pats them on the back.

And THIS aside from the repetitive dungeons and caves is the primary reason that DA: 2 was hated. I actually liked the messy endings. Then again I like Russian endings to stories: it is an ending where everybody lives with the sorrows they accrued throughout the journey.

Is that what it is? Russian ending. I've only read Anna Karenina, but it did end like that.

So were the Tamrielic Empire and the Septim bloodline. You see how that went.

There's a difference between bad writing and major holes and writing it in a way where you can't please everyone. If you had to defend Paarthurnax and lose the Blades, or destroy Paarthurnax and lose the Greybeards...that would be one thing. But that's not what's happening here.

It's the game forcing you to do something without forcing you: they leave it so there is no resolution. There's no challenge, just an order and a quest that never goes away.

The downside is that will lead to players not liking the setting if they can't get their desired happy ending and/or live out a power fantasy. Bethesda at least tries to adhere to the latter (Todd Howard even said so in an interview). It sounds like Bioware tried to stifle both and predictably shot themselves in the foot for doing so. In such games the only winning move is to not play, and that utterly destroys the purpose of an RPG.

It makes the situation too much like real life. Real life is not the happy ending or power fantasy. Real life is the Russian ending. Nothing positive without something equally negative happening elsewhere. Ye olde "no free lunch."

With the Blades/Paarthurnax/Greybeards I think Bethesda left it too open, unless this is our "Fallout 3" ending, and they're planning to do something with this in an expansion pack, and they left it open like this because of the Civil War plot as well, and once that's done we'll be forced to revisit this decision and make a choice.

nothing is true, everything is permitted in Skyrim. Even betrayal.

Thank you for the clarification, Ezio.

I figured they'd revisit in an expansion. I think even if you side with the Blades, Delphine will still be difficult.

I get the feeling Paarth is going to die no matter what you do. Somehow.

And Ulfric's hopes for High King are going to be dashed, because suddenly everyone now knows there's a dragonborn in Skyrim. What he does about that is anyone's guess. I mean, even if you side with the Stormcloaks, I don't think he's going to like it. He's written as a very ambitious character.

Ulfric is actually welcoming of you as the Dragonborn if you did the MQ before the civil war. Right as we overthrew Tulius, Galmar exclaims "Well if you want to make it a more interesting tale (in reference to killing Tulius), why not have the Dragonborn do it?". To which Ulfric agrees and gives you his sword to kill Tulius with. Afterwards he even wants you by his side when he address the crowd of soldiers, and says he's honored to have you (which is a bit of an impact since for most of the war he's come off as an egomaniac).

If anything I'd say he likes you even more as Dragonborn because he mutually understands the voice, and understands even more that you took down Alduin.

I want a DLC for Skyrim now.

Are you on a console? Otherwise, why?

He likes you now, but what I mean is... if it gets in his way, it's going to piss him off. "After all of this work, and suddenly, I'm stopped again"... that kind of thing.

Or, maybe, perhaps you'll get a chance to willingly give him the reins. I could see the Greybeards, if you're friendly, encourage to do that. "Just don't do anything. Wish for nothing in life. Sit here with us. Be our new spiritual leader."

Or, you could go "Screw that!" and fight your buddy Ulfric to the death. After all, what fun is it to be a spiritual leader in a video game?

OK, I'll stop.

Because I'm on a console. And because I want to see some new scenery. Hopefully Morrowind.

Well, yeah.... I can see how THAT would be then! Good luck, hon. I HOPE they're working on something for you guys....

.... and @Korr.... I REALLY like you. You're one of my fav posters here.

I'm on a console too. Fortunately, the 360 gets DLC the earliest, I think?

Well tbh the only thing I would get in his way about is the whole racist/subjection thing. But kicking the Thalmor all up and down the coast? Oh hell yeah. Don't need to be made king, I just need a LOT of Elves dead.

Like all true heroes, you'll clash with politicians. That's what I think. Think Achilles and Agamemon. Something like that.

I couldn't of say it better myself.

This is exactly the problem, as it basically leaves things hanging rather than any actual determination, since you cannot slap Delphine down for attempting to give you orders when it's her job to take them from you. You also cannot tell them to do it themselves, as you want nothing to do with the execution (which is basically what it is) of the being who enabled you to acquire the means to defeat Alduin and who, furthermore, is going to try to keep a leash, so to speak, on the rest of his kin.

You can kill Paarthurnax and back the Blades, which also cuts you off from the Greybeards, however the opposite choice is never really presented, so leaving Paarthurnax alive means the Blades are still there, sulking in Sky Haven Temple and refusing to have anything to do with you, and you cannot progress the quest any further in that direction as there's no provision for it.

Sloppy work, that.

How about a pro-thalmor DLC?

Ya, that's why I said Beth screwed up. As far as Lore is concerned, Meridia helped.... dangit.... I forgot his name. That Ayleid warrior. Something to do with wings I think. No matter, but in Skyrim she's pretty much holier than even Arkay. Arkay gives you amulet that increases your Block, Meridia gives you sword that can smite undead into Oblivion, which I think is a bit counter-intuitive, given the description of "Daedra" as "evil beings". Meridia should have become the tenth Divine given her position in Skyrim, where she did nothing but do "good".

Ahhh, you are refering to Umaril the unfeathered.

I believe that no one is inherently good or evil. It is our thoughts and actions that are good or evil, actions being the more important of the two.

3,000 years ago, Paarthurnax committed many evil acts. Then he stopped, and has spent the past 3,000 years doing nothing but good, including doing everything in his power to right his past wrongs. There's no reason to believe that he poses any danger to innocent mortals, thus, to murder him would be an act of evil.

JM not-so-humble O