No what I am saying is why can't you just use the same thing over and over to level up on smithing. do I have to make weapons, armour and jewellery in order to get up that skill tree. does that mean I can't just use a sword in one-handed all the time to level up I have to use every weapon there is to get up the skill tree because I would not like that dictated style of play one bit.

I think the flaw is were you can just improve your smithing and skill with on item, which wouldn't be allowed. A great Smith wouldn't become great by making daggers because swords and other objects require a different level of skill. He may become a master of making fine daggers but that's about it.

I end up using two-handed and heavy armor once in a while even though my character is archer-one handed-light armor just to raise my overall skill and get more perk points... that I then place in other skill trees.

Perk system in itself is OK, the biggest problems with it is without perks, your abilities scale poorly. Additionally, some perks are just the game's way of taxing you.

The primary source of advancement should be your character's growing skills, not perk picks. Perks should be icing on the cake. Augmented fire/frost/shock perks are a perfect example of "tax" perks; as my character's destruction skill grows, his spells should get better and hit harder all on their own; otherwise, what is the point of increasing the skill? On the other hand, Disintegrate/Intense Flames/Freeze are great - they give your spells "extra functionality" and represent your character dabbling some more in the art of fire, frost and lightning control.

The greatest aspect of TES games has always been "organic growth". If I run a lot, my character's Athletics skill (I miss you fondly) will increase, and I will run faster. If I jump, I will learn to jump higher over time. If I swing a sword, I learn how to swing it better and do more damage - all through just my actions and playstyle, not through picking perks. Skyrim dispensed with the organic growth in favor of rigid advancement, which, while giving you more control over your character, also robs TES of some of its inherent magic.

You're not really a master smith if you can't make a blade sword

Hehe, indeed but Skyrim allows you to become a master Smith just by making one item.

At least your knees are still okay.

To all your valid complaints I would add: Lazy perks are lazy. Many of them are simple +% skill performance, which is about as unimaginative as it gets and not a perk. A perk should be something that benefits the skill indirectly - for example Silent Roll, Fists of Steel, Ranger, etc. I feel like Bethesda just couldn't come up with enough perks to make the system work so they artificially bloated it with generic +% ones to make people spend the points.

This made skill level have little effect on skill performance. For example, One-handed increases damage done by only 0.5% per skill point gained, which means there's little difference between having 60 and 79 One-handed as you didn't hit the next requirement for Armsman which gives the real bonus. The whole thing becomes a waiting game where most skill level gains is just junk and filler to get to the 20/40/60/80 required for the next perk level.

Well if it was a multi-player game I would agree 100% with you but it's not.so if you want to abuse the game mechanics then why not.but if you want to play it the way you you just stated then you can do that as well. But I would not call it a flaw in the game because you can play the game using two different styles of play.

100% reduction to a spell school is a choice. It is not forced on, just like the crafting exploit is not forced on you. I plan on getting max enchanting on my Breton Spellsword, with some smithing skill and maybe a little alchemy, but I will NOT get 100% reduction OR use the crafting exploit to become a demi-god.

It's an option. An option that breaks the game. You can hide behind ROLLPLAYAN but that's the simple truth - some parts of Skyrim are broken and need to be fixed.

The most useless perk trees in my opinion is the Lock picking tree, and speech trees. none of the lock picking perks are worth it, my lock picking skill is at lvl 98, I have not invested a single perk into it. yet I can pick a master lock with ease. Especially if you know the secret to them since each lock has small dots that indicate the various lock sections that the devs would use, not to mention that since im a member of both the theifs guild and dark brother hood I have over 1000 lock picks. As for speech the only useful skills there are the bribery skill traits, and even then if you dont get caught you need not worry about it.

The only other thing I hate about the games perk system is that I cant bypass some of the useless perks to get what i actually want to use. I have to get the perk that doesnt set off floor traps which is useless as i can see them and deactivate them before I even step on em in order to get the perk that lets me do rolls while sneaking. Hate being so restricted when it comes to perks.

To further break the game, you can try this no perk prereq mod.

http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1943

They are not 'circle-shaped', they clearly are directed graphs, from bottom to top.

I agree with most of what the OP said although I disagree with point 3. If we have any more perk points then our choices wouldn't matter at level up because then we would have a jack of all trades character that can get every perk. It's why I liked what Obsidian did with New Vegas, in regards the number of perks you get every other level instead of every level like in Fallout 3 so that choices now matter more.

Problem with Perks:

1.) Perks that modify damage by percentages. This creates a scaling issue, especially due to the fact that Fortify Enchants exist in their current form.
2.) Most Perks do not add true specialization to the character invested in it. The only noticeable difference between characters specced in one tree or not is usually just the damage taken or dealt. Shadow Warrior, Silent Roll, Shield Bash, and Eagle Eye however are examples of great perks. Perks that modify how your character not only is able to perform, but new abilities that allow them access to a more defined playstyle.
3.) Top Perks are generally worthless. It is quite odd that the "best" perks are really not the "best" perks. Most top Perks are quite underwhelming and are utility based which should be located further down the tree.
4.) Crafting Perks...These just should not exist at all. Crafting is great and all, but given how the system works it is basically a MUST for characters wishing to have their itemization and character scale. That is bad. Further, with respect to the Smithing Tree, all perks become obsolete the moment you gain a higher tier. I would like to think that from the first perk point to the last, there is an ongoing benefit. A simple pre-req is ridiculous. Might as well make Daedric just cost "6" Perk points...
5.) Non-Combat Perks share Perk points with Combat / Major skills. Whoever thought this was a good idea should be taken out back. Non-Combat Perks are FANTASTIC ideas - but they should not share Perks with Combat related ones.
6.) There is no General Perk Tree. Yes, this is needed to feel a sense of progression continuously. It should not share Perk Points with Non-Combat Perks nor Combat perks but allow you to further customize your character every level. Simply going derp am I going to choose 10 points of Stamina, Health, or Magicka (which really isn't that hard of a decision to EVER make). It is sad that the feeling from hitting level 2 is the same as level 72... Same exact effect, whereas in other games hitting level 72 meant access to new and more powerful things. 10 more Health...not excited.

It amazes me that some of you think that doing something as designed (no mods, no cheats) is considered real cheating. Did I decide to screw up the leveling system by allowing infinite dagger production?? Nope. However many of you here frown on this even though it's in the game and doing so levels your character up as designed.

Sure it's possible to level up everything naturally (over time). I am sure doing it that way would take hundreds of hours and should not be the only way or "you're cheating". Honestly, how many would level up some skills without any kind of grinding? Who would need to craft so many items for their own use (not to sell or level up)??

I am over 60 hours in (not a small time investment) and I am no powerhouse at all. I am a Level 41 mage and still have trouble when I use destruction magic. If I had not grinded at all I would still be at level 20 and extremely weak.

Back on topic, I think the OP has some good points but it boils down to the whole leveling system needing some work. Leveling should not only be based on repeating tasks. Questing itself should provide more leveling opportunities as opposed to requiring new skills to be used (meaning I should get a level bonus of some kind even if I complete a quest/task using skills that are maxed out).

I think this game is a masterpiece. If you cant see that then go trade it in for some other game you'll end up complaining about. Have some imagination (it is a fantasy game after all) and stay away from game exploits.

if you think its stupid that you can sit there and pump out daggers to level up then why on earth would you sit there and do that.

The point is daggers take less materials, smaller, and less intricate thus should yeild less experience to the player than making a long sword. By your arguement one could easily ask Bethesda to scrap all different types of soul gems and make it that even killing a rabbit fills a grand soul gem. Make each pay off equal no matter how easy or difficult the task. Sadly I bet many here thinks that is a good idea and I would feel sad if sould gem types are reduced in the next ES game thanks to this post.

I do think it's stupid, but how else am I going to level up smithing? I would NEVER have done enough "natural" smithing in hundreds of hours to match what I did when making daggers. There's no way. I would have barely touched smithing at all since I am playing as a mage, but I needed that EXP for skill points. As I mentioned, even with those skill points I am nowhere near OP (thanks to Destruction magic being somewhat underwhelming).

I never would have touched smithing if I had not needed the skill points. As it is my character wears no armor and I didn't put any skill points on the smithing tree. I did it because that's the only way to level up in this game, and that's what I have a problem with.

The perks system puts restrictions on your character that is a good thing.

I would like a retooled attribute system added back in with a general perk tree to support it.

Strength 50 carry 35 extra ponuds. Intelligence 50 you get 6 attribute points. Agility 65, jump higher. Speed 50 move/ sprint faster, something like that.

The perk system restriction would be good, if it didnt force you to waste perks points on useless passive perks. They should have gone with the fallout perk system, you just needed to meet the skill requirement and bam, you have the perk you want. Sometimes it required you have 2 skill requirements and a previous perk but only when it made sense. The way it is now my character should have been able to at least invest in some magic for restoration and or such. Problem is I have so many wasted perks its pointless. Now im trying to put some stuff in Conjuration but I can barely do so because I have so many useless perks in sneak and light armor. Smithing should not have been a skill it should have been like cooking, possible if you had the required materials. How do you balance it, make better materials harder to farm and find. Ebony ore shouldnt be on every other bandit, it should be in a specific mine or other. In order to mine for stuff, you should have to pay the miners an initial fee to let you keep or dig up the ore. The better armor perks should have been fused with the defense improvement perks. Light armor would have boosted defense of all light armors by 10% every point invested and at each lvl added a new armor set to the crafting list same for heavy armor and all 3 weapon choices. All magics should be catagorized under magic along with enchanting, thus you have one novice to master tree and then varying branches for your chosen arcane profession as well as enchanting.

You sir really nailed it.

This aggravates me as well and I've already modded it out of my game. It makes no roleplaying sense whatsoever that my character is a master of smithing light armor and weapons and at the same time is apparently so incompetent at smithing that he can't even attempt to smith heavy weapons and armor.

Okay OP. You made a valid point, some perks are worthless. The rest however is just wrong.

Enchanting. If you think it 'breaks' the game. Then don't do it. See it comes down to what you want to do and how you go about using it. You can use to enhance your character a little bit or you can push it to the max and stomp a mudhole in the game. Enchanting Soul Steal and Muffle doesn't break the game now does it? So it's all about the choice you make. You choose to break your game, so don't complain because you decided to do it. Make the choice suffer the consequences.

Not enough perks. Again, a load of baloney. I've played a Caster Warrior. One Hand, Shield, Heavy Armor, Archery, Smithing, Enchanting, Resto, Destruction and a few other points spread around. Guess what, only got up to level 41 and my guy was Boss. Now I'm playing a Archer Thief: One Hand, Archery, Heavy Armor, Smithing, Enchanting, Sneak, Enchanting and a single point in Pickpocket. Almost complete with Thieves Guild and its almost too easy. Level 28.

So you get plenty of points my friend. But if you try to get everything under the sun then no, you don't have enough. Learn to pick what you need first and want second then prioritize when to get it. Saying you can't invest in Speech to keep a dragon from killing you is garbage. Go find the Lord stone and buy yourself a Magic Resis amulet or ring.

Aside from some perks being useless, your method of playing and understanding of how to properly progress without hamstringing yourself is what is making your game suffer. Spend more time learning what to do right instead of complaining. I used my first character as a test dummy to figure out the game before committing to a serious playthrough.

Some perks do seem useless to my character, I'm good with that. I have perks scattered all over, at least 7 different trees.

I keep hearing about enchanting and smithing maxed out makes unstoppable characters, I may try that for fun on the tenth replay. For now I want one handed sword with some healing off hand. He can pick locks, shoot arrows, improve armor with some smithing and enchanting, but nothing crazy. I just choose to try balance, so I'm not really worried about the top of any tree. Of course my guy will never deal 800 damage or have an armor rating of 1200 (or whatever is possible). I am really enjoying this game, down the road I may try maxing things out for an uber bad ass, but not right now.