Which was bloody annoying. See previous post.

did someone just claim that skyrims UI was better than morrowind's

Lol, I was joking about this with my cousin last week.

So you've never played combat in Morriwind?

i keep seeing this pacing stuff. if the game was meant to be played with the side missions then they would have required you to do more side missions before you did the main quest. they didnt so clearly they didnt mean for the game to be played that way.

the first time i did the college quests i was expecting more than three quests. i figured id have plenty of time to beat this guild and do some other stuff. little did i know that a mere three quests later im the archmage. had i known that there would only be three quests i probably would have spaced it out more but since i was playing the game for the first time i DIDNT KNOW. maybe bethesda needs to put notes in front of their quests in future games.
"warning: only two quests for this guild. space it out with other stuff"

I guess you didn't do anything other than walk around staring at things then, because even for it's time the issues it had were glaring.

IMO that includes most of the crappy quests, minus the MQ and a couple others here and there they actually were considerably worse than Skyrims.

Only thing I think it had going for it in that department was the skill requirements..quests themselves were snoozers.

You aren't imagining things. Faction content in The Elder Scrolls has been steadily decreasing over time.

Morrowind (2002):
11 joinable factions with full quest lines-
Great Houses: House Redoran, House Hlaalu, House Telvanni
Professional Guilds: Fighters Guild, Thieves Guild, Mages Guild
Others: Imperial Legion, Imperial Cult, Tribunal Temple, Morag Tong
Bloodmoon: East Empire Company

All factions had full and robust questlines with many hours of content. In addition, attribute and skill limits to advance in rank were present ( you actually had to be GOOD at what they did to advance, or even join, in some cases). Faction disposition also played a role, so as a member of one faction, you couldn't join your enemy or rival (cannot do all factions in a single playthrough). Quests are static in difficulty, as are most opponents ( you can't become guildmaster at a low level)

Plus three joinable vampire clans, each with a few quests and their own ranks (depending on the clan of vampire that bit you)

Oblivion (2006):
5 joinable factions with full quest lines-
Fighters Guild, Mages Guild, Thieves Guild, Imperial Arena, Dark Brotherhood
Several other minor factions related to single side quests or factions quests.
Knights of the Nine is joinable, but as advancing in their ranks is integral to the main quest of the expansion, I put them in the same category as the Blades (they don't count as a faction distinct from a main quest, but are technically joinable).

The are no skill or attribute checks to join or advance in the factions, faction members, quests, and quest rewards all scale to your level (you can finish any faction questline without ever leveling up or becoming good at what they do). In addition, there are generally less overall quests per faction. There is no faction disposition system.

Skyrim (2011):
6 joinable factions with full quest lines-
Companions, College of Winterhold, Thieves Guild, Imperial Legion, Stormcloaks
and the Bards, a minor guild, among several others

No skill or attribute checks for advancement or joining. The only faction disposition present is the binary between Stormcloaks and Legion, none of your other memberships or previous quests have an effect on your ability to join them, they are simply mutually exclusive. While level scaling is somewhat better than in Oblivon, the overall content of each factions' questline is even less than Oblivion, enabling you to race through each faction.

Source: UESP wiki.

excellent find.

The ignorant and blatant exaggeration in this thread is simply staggering.

It took me over a weak to complete the Companions quest doing it off and on. Was a good questline. Dark Brotherhood as well, that took a few days but with more of my time focused on it.

Stop freaking grinding questlines and let the game take a natural flow, this is not an MMO. I seriously feel like you people just grind factions as hard as you can with the intent of seeing how short they are so you can come here to complain. It's sickening, really.

The only faction i'd say is "short" is the Mages guild, but the content offset the short size, was very fun.

its called constructive criticism

No, I knew what I was doing, understood representation and had no problem with the UI or certain design decisions that the poster I quoted mentioned.



But, how bout them Bengals. They don't even deserve to be in the playoffs, but, at least Oakland got screwed with Palmer, and their decisions. For some reason I think that if we would have beat the Ravens, we would have surely lost in the first round. Now, I'm not so sure, I think we can beat the Texans in Texas. Only to lose to a real contender in the next round.

QFT. I had so few issues with MW that I still play it to this day. I also play Daggerfall some (though the "graphics" hurt my eyes....), and Oblivion more than some. Skyrim is fun.... but the content is in wandering the roads and making up my own game pretty much.

Most of the guild quests back in Oblivion were basically the same through the guild line. Why do you need to repeat the same quest three times when just once will suffice. Skyrim cuts the fat and offers radiant quests through the guilds if you want the repetition from the previous games. Plus those radiant quests are still offered after you complete the questline so its like your still a member.

The thieves guild quest line is really &)*&)*$@% long if your trying to restore it to its full glory.

Is the guild restored to full glory do you have the guild master's armor. If the answer is no your not finished yet.

Why didn't Bethesda just make huge quest-lines so no one has to complain?

How long did they have to make this game? 3 years?

Seems like more than enough time to think up a multiple 20 quest-line Guilds.

To me, Morrowind did have more guilds, and more quests per guild. Oblivion is a median between Morrowind and Skyrim, but its a very tough scale, do they do more guilds or do they want more freelance action?

Fixed that for you. The Mages guild in Oblivion was an absolute punish.

Skyrim's was over too quickly, Oblivion had it over too slowly. A balance between the 2 would have been nice. Personally, I'm wondering if they ran out of time on the mages guild questline. Seemed very... abrupt.

DB and thieves guild were excellent though. Well written, good quests, interesting characters. A+

A lot of people are talking about that problem: I hope it gets fixed as well !

No, it's called exaggerating like a crybaby.

Do you seriously believe that? Yes, less use out of a product that costs the same is a good thing - god it would be terrible if my phones battery lasted for an extra day, I'd have to quit my job and spend my newfound free time prank calling 911 to wear that battery down.

Man it would svck so hard getting 50% extra fuel free of charge eh? I'd have to stop eating and sleeping in order to spend more time driving.

And just imagine if I got a freaking pay rise at work tomorrow, there'd barely be enough hours in the day to spend all that money!

No I certainly agree, the majority of players would hate to have longer questlines, these people on the forums are just the scum of society, outcast to the dark corners of the internet for their defunct and arcane opinions. Man it would svck so hard if it didn't take 4 hours to become the leader of the Companions! But it's ok though! We get randomly generated quests! So even if you are one of those wierd folk that enjoys more bang for your buck (lol idiots) there's no need to complain, because you can kill/fetch x from y and report to z till your eyes bleed!

The definition people are using for "rushing the factions" or "grind factions" in this thread = actually doing them and not ignoring them while you do something completely different.

If you have to ignore something and not do it to try and give the illusion that it isn't short, well that's pretty much an admission that what people are complaining about in this thread is true.

I thought I read somewhere preliminary work started right after OB, so perhaps even up to 5, it felt like they spent 2 years 9 months crafting the world, making the graphics nice, adding all the flora, fauna, random events and major hold capitals, then spent a month adding minor capitals (winterhold etc), a month writing questlines and a month adding the "cinematic" sequences in the DB and Mage questlines

Also to everyone saying there is more bang in the shorter lines I whole-heartedly disagree, not only was the companion line horribly short but I was almost bored to tears, becoming a werewolf was kinda cool (maybe better if they didn't railroad you into it) and the rest was a huge blah.

DB was the one guild I felt improved generally more or less EDIT: statement recanted because of next post, lol

Mages guild had a worse guild "setting" and (way, way too)short line but it generally did have more (or more potential for if expounded on) bang and "attention getting" with the story and,

I have to disagree here with everyone else, the Thieves Guild was generally a worse line than in OB, besides the nice guildhall, the Nightingales seemed like B rate Grey Foxes, there weren't any great heist's like stealing the Elder Scroll (unless you count the last mission with Mercer, which was more revenge than a purposeful heist) and there was a lot of un-necessary padding at the end to restore the guild, now THOSE felt like grinding

Yes, I don't think people can even justify the short questlines by saying the caliber of quests have increased because for the most part, they're really static and a lot of them just end up being "go to x, kill/fetch y and report to z". Oblivion was generally as bland as unbuttered toast but even then there was enough standout quests (dropping trophies on to someones head, murdering everyone in a mansion without letting the others know (whodunnit) the thieves guilds great heist (awesome quest) etc) to pad out the game world.

Skyrim MASSIVELY improved on the setting, and I agree that the attention to detail that went into the world itself was simply staggering, unfortunately levelled loot, short/bland questlines and the occasional ridiculous levelled NPC detract from an otherwise stellar experience.

This is where I guess I differ from the masses. I really like the quest set-up in Skyrim. It feels more believable, and more in-line with how stories of heroes and legends were formed.

Now-a-days, a protaginist will be on one quest throughout a book series. It will be the driving force of what s/he does. Any secondary or tertiary events will, eventually, be used to further the primary story-line.

This idea is actually a recent developement in literature. The 'adventure hero' had a variety of escapades that rarely tied in more than superficially. From Hercules to Holmes, Robin Hood, Beowolf, Paul Bunyan, Tom Sawyer, these guys didn't have one thousand page stories of one quest, they had a series of adventures that were often extremely short by todays standards. Even present-day stories, like Jim Butcher's Dresden Files or Dean Koontz's Odd Thomas series, the books are separate stories that have little (at first) to do with each other.

Another example of this episodic story-telling is our own present-day version of mythology: comics. While a true comic fan may say recently they have gone down-hill, the initial inception of comics made them one-shot stories. Every month, Superman, Batman, Spiderman or Captain America would face off against a new villian with a new diabolical plan to take over/destroy/enslave/etc.

And I feel like I'm creating a story akin to these characters. My archer is much like Robin Hood, those less altruistic. My barbarian does his best to emulate Conan. My Elven sorcerer could step into Tolkein's Silmarillion. And that is great, I'm fully enjoying the experience.

man, your making me relive old memories of doing those quests, I might have to recant my statement of the DB being improved, I must have reloaded and did that whodunnit quest 10 times because it was so awesome, besides Lechance I will still give Skyrim the advantages of better characters in the guild, and the grandiosity of the quest line as a whole but, man those quests that were just sheer fun and inventive

I don't get your point, can't you still be Gandalf the Grey (white) if the quest line for the mages guild is longer than 3 quests? Can't you still be Iron man if the Companions guild is more immersive rather than go to x, kill y, reward is z? haven't there always been multiple numbers of guilds/episodes for your character to take part in? wouldn't it be better for the character rp if they had different endings?