This is something i'm starting to notice more and more with this game as someone who makes a lot of characters in TES games the one thing that I never really felt in the other games was a feeling of sameness between my characters. I'm going to list the reasons for why I think that is bellow, please keep in mind this is just my opinion.

The first measure of linearity I feel is in the character creation itself, the first time you play it everything is great the flow works as you would want it you define your character as you go and that is great the first time now when I start another character it feels exactly the same for the wrong reasons I feel a very big sensation of deja vu in fact this feeling lingers for about the first 10 hours of that characters life. i think the big reason for this is because you don't create your class anymore therefor it takes time to get to the point where your character really starts to feel unique.

Another thing that gives this game a linear feel is the scripted events, for example the first time you go to riverwood and you go to the general goods store and start the golden claw quest the sister whatever her name is takes it upon herself to show you the way well I am not ready to go yet I wanted to go to the blacksmith first but that doesn't matter she just walks off into to the sunset talking to herself like I was with her it really takes you out of experience. And this isn't even close to worst case of this, who here fears going into a new town because you know what is going to happen yeah that's right you are going to accidentally trigger half a dozen scrippted events and you have to stop and listen to them because you only get one shot at hearing them and it is always the same with every character.

I not going to go real deep into this one because I don't think I need to but the sheer lack of dialog choices just ruins any changes you would want to make in the story with a new character. (or heck even your first)

I just hope this doesn't remain a constant in the TES universe it would really be a shame.

Scripted events aren't linear...they're scripted. Big difference.

The game only feels linear if one plays it that way.

When starting a new game, instead of going directly to Riverwood, run on over to Dawntide and start playing over there. Or fast travel to Solitude and pretend you just swam ashore after a shipwreck.

Sure...all the quests end up being the same, but that's not because of linearity...it's because certain quests are scripted in how they occur...but not WHEN they occur.

The fact that you can go where you want, when you want, and how you want shows that "linear" doesn't really fit Skyrim.

I agree in some regards, but the character creation has always felt more or less the same for me. In Morrowind you got off the boat, chose how you wanted to choose your class, and were done. With Oblivion, you made your race, killed some stuff, chose a Birthsign, killed stuff, chose a class, and kill stuff. And in Skyrim, you go to your execution, choose your race, almost die, and enter the world.

I do wish they made some of the events less linear though. For example:

But the scripted events are linear I can't stop them from happening if I even get near people in a city they just start happening every time in the same way.

i know what you mean. the game is great the first playthrough, but yourr second of third you can almost play with your eyes closed b/c you know whats gonna happen even when walking down a road because random events tend to happen in the same spots.

This is where having a character class would have helped reduce the linearity. Have the scripts play out differently depending on class.

But you don't have to listen to them, talk to them, or react to what they say or do. You can just keep on going your way and come back to them 6 months later to get the quest...or not. None of the quests are really necessary for anything.

So yes...the set-up to some of the quests are scripted, but the quest itself, and your response to them, don't need to be. Like Cicero on the road. His entire sequence is scripted...but it's not linear. You can act on it, or not...and you can do it when you want...or not. Same with the quest you mentioned in Rivverwood. The set up is scripted. I'm not sure where you're getting the "linear" from.

Linear means "in a straight line"...and i don't see that anywhere in Skyrim.

Scripted and linear are two totally different things.

Agreed with the OP, thoroughly.

Lol there are far too many possible class combinations for that too happen, and frankly its a [censored] idea anyways.

I'm sorry but "do it or don't do it" hardly accounts for choice. There are very few quests in this game where the events can unfold differently than the player doing the quest or not doing it.

We are going to have to agree to disagree because to me those scripted events are one straight ass line.

True, you always have the option of whether or not to do a quest, and when. But you don't have multiple options within most quests. At least not ones that make a difference.

The civil war questline is a great example. You attack place X, attack place Y, attack place Z, and do the next major part of the quest, then repeat. They had so much possibility to work in other things like taking a few men and sneaking to a camp to attack the enemy. You could be increasing your strength by capturing forts and take enemy soldiers prisoner. There was tons of chances for the Radiant Story to make this questline really nonlinear but you just do the same thing over and over.

I agree about the leveling system it has some big flaws.

In a pre-release interview I heard Todd Howard talking about how fluid the world would be and how if you killed the general merchant in town, one of his relatives would inherit the store but she might send an assassin after you. How you might get a quest with one character and the quest would be completely different when you got it with another character. The world would change depending on what you did, so different playthroughs would be very different.

That's a lofty goal, and one Bethesda should keep working on, because it does not seem Skyrim has quite lived up to this. I hear people complaining that once a merchant gets killed by a Dragon attack, the shop remains closed. The only people sending thugs after me are merchants, when I accidently picked up a two septim piece of junk when I was trying to engage them in conversation. All so far my playthroughs seem pretty similar and I have not noticed many major differences playing five very different characters.

there is absolutely nothing linear about skyrim. you do what you want. you want a linear game? go play skyward sword, that game is so linear that a hallway seems like more freedom, oh my gosh. i almost can't play it because of how linear it is. compared to ss, skyrim is 100% pure unadvlterated freedom..

In my experience most other games (including the TES series) plays out quite similar as well, different characters might approach situations with a different strategy or do things in a different order, but a good portion of the content will be there no matter which character or how you play. To Skyrim's credit I felt that once you got past the "initiation quests" the game opened up greatly and I was able to take very different routes with my different characters.

Well, yeah, TES (Skyrim included) provides more freedom than any other fantasy franchise, but the dungeons in Skyrim seem more linear compared to Oblivion.

Meh. I never used a class in Oblivion.... I made a custom class, didn't bother changing the name from Adventurer (since it didn't matter), and then used whichever skills I wanted to, regardless of whether they were Major or not. Class really has never meant much in TES, at least to me.

That's because they are more linear then Oblivion's.

Isn't Morrowind and Oblivion almost exactly like that? If I talk to the same people, most certainly I will get the same answers and same quests again and again...

The only difference being that in Oblivion the NPCs didn't talk about anything besides trivial things and in Morrowind they barely talk between themselves. While in Skyrim the NPCs get some unique conversations between them the first time you see them (Like the Morthal people complaining with the Jarl)

No not the same at all I could ignore the NPCs in those games if I wanted to here they are thrust upon me and I'm given a quest objective on top of that if I do choose to ignore them in skyrim I completely miss out on the context of said quest because I can not go back and hear that dialogue again.

I don't understand this. When I want to play a mage, I immediately wear the first robes I get and use spells from the get go. If I want to play an archer I use a bow and arrows as soon as I get them. If I want to play a two-handed weapon warrior, I will wear heavy armor and... you get the idea.

The game allows you to play your "class" from the get go. In fact, it gives you quite a bit of option from the start, since you can choose whatever the hell you want to do. If your characters don't feel unique it's because you play them the same way every time. I think some people have a really hard time restraining themselves from using certain skills, which is kind of funny.


As for the rest of your post, I understand where you're coming from. I just don't really know how they could script events differently. A scripted event is a scripted event. Perhaps people have better ideas.

One way they could perhaps do it (I don't know if it's feasable with this engine) is a percentage chance of an event triggering. For example, a WWII strategy game I played a lot (and moded) would have a scripted event where Germany would declare war to Poland on September 1st, 1939, about 85% of the time. There was a small chance they would do it later or not do it at all (declare war to France and Britain directly), or there was a chance it would go to war sooner depending on other scripted events (Sudetland, reoccupation of the Rhineland, etc.)

I guess Bethesda could have some script say where "In my time of need" only has a 10% chance of triggering everytime you enter Whiterun. But then again, like someone said, you can just ignore the Alikr and not do the quest now.

But yes, some events I just know are going to happen beforehand, so I get your complaint.

Not true, the vigil of stendar guy who asks questions about the haunted house in Markarth can be engaged in conversation, he will ask you the question that triggers the quest but you are given 3 dialoge options.You can stop and ask if he needs help,you can sat that you have no idea of what he's talken bout or you can tell him to go stuff him-self(if I'm not wrong). Point is that yes he pushes the quest on you, but you are given 3 different choices of reaction, you can start the quest, you can tell him you don't know and every time you go back he asks you the same question, or you can be rude and still he asks you every time you enter the city. And as my experience has been just about every quest has the same 3 options and you are free to start or delay any quest at your whim.

First off I'm appreciative for the thought out disagreement you bring to the table.

that is kind of part of my argument every character is the same in the the other games i could start out with my skill at like 50 or higher in some of my skills now it takes me hours to make that same headway and on top of that I'm stuck doing these scripted quests with limited dialog options over and over again.

so one quest and on top of it its a daedirc quest which as we all now get some extra love and care if all quests where like this that would be nice but they are not.