Which is why I said the Great War and the White-Gold Concordat would play parts in the disbandment, or even destruction of the Order.

They also might go the way of Jyggalg, and not be mentioned again.

He's not Aedra. He's a God, but not Aedra.

He mantled Lorkhan and took Lorkhan his place in the religion. Lorkhan by the most basic definition of Aedra (ancestors) is definitely a Aedra, meaning that as long as Talos and Lorkhan can be confused Talos is an Aedra.

Bah, delete, meant to edit, not double-post

Perception is reality: that's one of the central themes of TES.

The Aedra no longer exist as such: fragments of the Aedra are the souls of the mortal races, and their will is fragmented amongst them. This is why the Aedra cannot generally act, while the Daedra can. However, if enough of these god-fragments believe something is true, that thing becomes true, because that consensus forms the will of the gods.


Eeh. It muddies the usefulness of the word IMO, to allow it to be applied is this way. You aren't wrong, but your logic makes the word less precise than it should be.

That's what I like about TES Pretty much everything is open to interpetation.

This is why I'd say the most benevolent versions of the Aedra need to be promoted as much as possible. If enough people believe the Gods are looking out for them, it happens. If people believe the Gods are harsh or indifferent, they will be. So your best bet would to have interpretations that a peaceful, just, caring, good, etc. (I'd say this would be the Imperial Cult's versions. The Nordic ones are helpful for Kyne and Shor, but believing in Orkey and Alduin is dangerous. And Auri-El seems to genocidal in Altmer religion, though maybe the Bosmeri beliefs in him are more benign)

Also, there is supposedly one dead Knight of the Nine carrying one of their books somewhere in the wilderness, I haven't found him yet myself though.

The problem with that is that the believes for the gods is there for a reason. It's not like believe created them, they were already there. Then believe arose because of that, you aren't going to convince the entire world to change belief over night. It's just not going to happen. Unfortunately.

Yeah, I'm not sure how you'd actualy get that done beyond just promoting a belief and sharing it in hopes it would catch on.

Could go door to door I suppose
Priest o' the Nine: "Excuse me, I'm with the Nine Divines faction, have you found Akatosh yet?"
Guy: "No, but if I see him I'll let ya know."
*door slam*

For those who care, I apologize for repeating word-for-word what I already said in another thread.

Most likely, the designers first decided to have civil war in Skyrim. They made that decision not because of Pluto, but because they wanted a civil war. Next, they probably brainstormed ideas for causes of the war. Talos, the Nords' most revered divine, is recognized as a man who ascended to godhood. That status is old stuff in Elder Scrolls lore, not something invented as a consequence of the big Pluto debate, which came afterward. Men becoming divine, divines viewed as men, and men viewed as divines, are subjects of well-known, real-life religious controversies. Religious differences are actual historical, and current, in-your-face causes of widespread human bloodshed. Designers needing excuses for Nords fighting a civil war hardly need Pluto for inspiration. Other sources are far more immediate.

Although it may be fun to draw parallels between Pluto and Talos, there is little reason to believe that Pluto factored into Skyrim's design.

vary good point even though he isn't worshiped as one he is still a divine.

but one thing didn't they say Pluto wasn't a planet because it didn't follow the same orbit path and went in a oval formation rather then a circle?

Why are Mods allowing this to stay up- It`s a spoiler I`d rather find out about in game!!

I hate it when people put spoilers in thread titles cos you can`t avoid seeing it.

it isn't exactly a spoiler though it can have spoiler content. the fact that talos isn't worshiped doesn't really give away much about the game as a whole

This is no more a spoiler than knowing that there are Dragons in Skyrim.

Setting details are basic information.

Charon is one of Pluto's four moon and we have known about Charon since 1978. I remember seeing a picture of it when I was a kid in the 1980s. It looked like a bulge because the best telescopes of the day could not fully resolve it. Objects like that are usually discovered by their gravitational effects on other objects (or other means), long before we are able to photograph them.

Another object now classified as a "dwarf planet" is Ceres, which was discovered in 1801, along with the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter shortly thereafter. Astronomers have known that there are thousands of objects in orbit around the Sun for a couple hundred years, long before the discovery of Pluto.

Astronomers first hypothesized the Kuiper Belt in the 1930s just after Pluto was discovered, and by the 1960s there was mounting evidence of its existance based on measurements of mass in the solar system, etc. This was long before they "discovered" a lot of Kuiper belt objects with telescopes beginning in the early 1990s.

It probably makes more sense to classify Pluto with the Kuiper Belt objects, but the issue is not entirely beyond debate. For one thing, you can see Pluto in a good backyard telescope. You cannot say the same for the other Kuiper Belt objects. Pluto is still the largest Kuiper Belt object. Sure, Eris is more massive, but it doesn't share Pluto's reletively circular orbit, and is not classified as a Kuiper Belt object. Eris has a highly elliptical orbit and spends most of its time beyond the Kuiper belt.

It took astromomers quite a while and much debate to come up with a definition of planet that they could generally agree upon.

Sure, our knowledge of other objects in the solar system expands as we discovered new objects, it is an ongoing process. Not an overnight discovery or paradigm shift.

What changed most was out attitude about how we wanted to define a "planet". But how is that so much different than the Empire's attitude about the divinity of Talos changing?

Actually, none of the planets orbits in a true circle. They all follow somewhat eliptical orbits. It is true that Pluto's orbit is somewhat more elliptical than the eight planets we recognize today, whose orbits are pretty close to a circle. However, Pluto's orbit is far more circular than other objects such as Eris, which is slightly larger (i.e. more massive) than Pluto but whose orbit is highly elliptical.

The actual IAU definition of a "planet" is a celestial body that

1.is in orbit around the Sun,
2.has sufficient mass to assume hydrostatic equilibrium (a nearly round shape), and
3.has "cleared the neighbourhood" around its orbit.

So its the third criteria that distinguishes Pluto, not the somewhat elliptical nature of its orbit. Pluto failed to clean up its neighborhood, so to speak and therefore can no longer be called a "planet." I am sure the Thalmor could come up with a similar argument for why Talos cannot be condidered divine, like he was born a man.

Great read, thanks for sharing
I suppose its not so much different for the Empire, except that they are coerced.
I dont think they really believe it in their hearts.
Here scientists strive for an orderly system about things far off.
Talos is a much more emotional issue.

Yeah, it is not a perfect parallel to be sure.
Funny that you mentioned the dichotomy between science and emotions. The reclassification of Pluto makes perfect sense from a scientific standpoint, and as a backyard astronomer I should support that, and for the most part I do, but there is something emotionally unsettling about it that I can't quite explain.

Alessa is considerd the first due to her pact with Akatosh.

I look at the quite summier boyhood book about the solar system, which talks about pluto, it has photos taken by the Voyagers if Im not mistaken, and do let out a sigh.
But really, when you look at it another way, the solar system hasnt become smaller, it became a lot bigger.
The Kuiper belt now exists in the minds of people.
Now we can start naming big and interesting stuff out there in the Kuiper, and dream about exploration or mining missions to there.
We havent lost a planet, we gained an entire belt.

The reason there are now only the 8 is because the thalmor and the empire made a agreement which was called something like white Gold concordnant probably got that name wrong anyways the thalmor didint believe in talos because he was born as man and became a god (mangod) and the empire made a deal so war wouldent continue but trust me the empire aren't going to have that treaty for long

TALOS IS NOT A GOD! HE IS A DIRTY, CHEATING, BRETON COWARD!

Yes.

A dirty, cheating, Breton coward who absorbed the soul of an awesome Nord asskicker so he could mantle Shor and become a god.

Remember this lesson well, everyone.

Achieve heaven through violence.

Talos is indefinitley a divine. And guess what? The majority of religion is heavily influenced by religion.