http://www.imperial-library.info/content/decree-monument

Let me correct my statement.

No, Skyrim should belong to the Nords. Outsiders should not be welcome, unless on trade or diplomatic business. You should go to Cyrodiil if you want a diverse melting pot.

And why should they not be welcome as citizens of Skyrim? Surely the non-Nordic peoples consider themselves Nords in the cultural and/or national sense, despite their non-Nordic blood.

Denying citizenship to someone due to heritage IS racist.

No, just conservative. I want Skyrim to remain the Nord homeland, that won't happen if immigrants keep pouring in from left, right and centre. Eventually they'll be tired of being the bottom rung and they'll try and take Skyrim for themselves. History always repeats itself.

They are not Nords, they are citizens of the Empire, Skyrim doesn't want to be a part of the Empire anymore, when that happens the laws of citizenship in Skyrim shall change !!


Death to all non-Nords, we'll wash the streets with the blood of the FILTH !!

That was 30 years ago and the Dominion has had plenty of time to gather its strength, whereas the force that invaded Hammerfell had been but a fraction of what remained of their forces after the Great War. I doubt anyone in the Empire was happy with the series of events that led to such a moment, and indeed is proven by the Imperial volunteers who fought on behalf of Hammerfell even as the Empire officially signed the peace treaty with the assumption the provinces would do the same. However, for you to say that the Empire severs no one but the elite of Cyrodiil is dishonest and ignores that the Imperials sacrificed their homeland to say "no" to the Dominions demands for a much larger chunk of Hammerfell than was signed away during the treaty. Lets' not forget that the entire war took place in the Imperial home province and that none of the other provinces in the Empire had known the war to such an extent or fought as hard. No one likes a lost war, but for you to assault the Imperials in such an unfair fashion is dishonoring everyone, Imperial and Nord alike who died fighting the Dominion.


The Empire consisted of Highrock, Hammerfell, Skyrim, Morrowind, and the Imperial province and the Dominion still defeated it, leaving it bloodied and battered. Under what logic do you think a fraction of that same strength would be able to defeat the same host that forced such a sever peace treaty upon a much larger one? Further, why would Hammerfell ally itself with Skyrim? Hammerfell called for assistance against the Dominion, and no one in Skyrim answered, including Ulfric himself. Mankind’s only hope is to present a unified line of defense against the Aldmri Dominion, we stand no chance of resisting them if our strength is divided, and that is exactly what they are trying to do. Would you knowingly fall right into their trap?

You claim the Empire is weak, but how much weaker would Skyrim be if it were to stand alone? There is corruption within the Empire, true, but no more so than any other government. Would you trade one corruption for another simply because it is based closer to home? Yes, there is corruption, but there are also honorable men as well, which also is true of any government.

Not really, remember how slowly Elves breed, the humans can re-populate their armies far quicker. They'll have a 5-1 advantage in a couple of generations time.

Actually its nationalistic. Its just modern-day overly-'PC' western cultures label anything but absolute tolerence and acceptence as rasicm. =P

Skyrim is for the Nords! And Dunmer...! However, I am not opposed to peace with the Empire, just as soon as they pull out their soldiers and accept out soverienty. >=[

It seems the only people who are willing to compromise for the greater good and find a solution that everyone can live with are the Imperial backers. Perhaps it was too much to expect the Ulfric people to work toward a peaceful solution.

Elven_Princess - Remember how long it takes for Elves to breed. It will take them centuries to re-populate their armies. It will only take humans a couple of generations.

So Skyrim has plenty of time to win it's independence, re-populate it's armies and smash the AD. Along with the Empire and Hammerfell, allied but not united.

Unfortunately, the only "peaceful" solution the Empire currently seems to offer is "stay a part of the Empire and abide by the WGC." In other words, the status quo, which is clearly not acceptable to the other side. As long as one party wants to be free of the WGC and the other party requires submission to it, we're at an impasse.

Heh, perhaps that is because judging by your posts you can only view compromise as legitimate if it's framed on your terms.

Cyrodiil doesn't have to be in charge of everything. Free nations can and do make alliances.

20 years- the Second Treaty of Stros M'kai was 4E 180, Torygg was killed 4E 201. And as others have pointed out, it's not a long time by elven standards, given their low birth rate. OTOH, their long life span means that they can still afford to wait out a long war, especially when they're getting so many concessions from the empire and able to have eyes-on surveillance of anything their enemies do. The political manipulation game is their strong suit, and so long as the empire is willing to play then they'll be at an advantage, in Skyrim as well.

When you can't sell your false peace at home, it's time to rip the paper up, not turn your forces on your own people.

Hammerfell was also an initial target and was hit very hard. The only reason that Cyrodiil became the prime target after the first push was that the Dominion found it weaker than expected.

Ulfric is not a thalmor asset. They want the war to continue, but that doesn't mean they want the Stormcloaks to win.

I only side with the Empire to further my own interests. Ulfric will not get in my way to the throne.

He is an asset to the Thalmor for as long as the Civil War continues, but if he wins the situation changes. Then he will most likely be considered a threat instead.

A clever thalmor agent would incite tensions between skyrim and cyrodiil. If he can, that is.


Still Ulfric isn't aiming to get on the Empire's bad side.

We'll talk of peace. And warring by yer side. We won't talk of our gods being betrayed to put the smile on any Elf-face. You can stick yer White Gold Heresy where e'en Shor's moons and Magnus his self won't get a look.

I didn't know this!

He's so boss. The imperials can sod right off, I'd storm the gates of Oblivion with Buliwyf.

I found that dialogue for him in the CK and wondered if it was actually in the game, or something that wasn't used. I only did the DB stuff with a character that joined the Legion, so I guess the situation that would prompt it never came up.

We'll agree if ya pull your Legates out of our Skyrim, we know about your camps in the mountains.

Anyway, why do you Cyrodiils have to rule? You've had yer time in power, now just let go of the reins since yer legions can hardly defend Cyrodiil. If the 'Old Mary' Dominion come a'calling then we'll help but don't expect us to then waltz back into your Empire.

" All wars are civil wars because all men are brothers" Gen. Lee Grant

Not at all, my proposal would setup an independent Stormcloak Skyrim for the holds who chose to leave, whilst also setting up a mutual defense alliance aimed at the Dominion for the protection of both. The status quote would be that Stormcloak held Skyrim would pay taxes to the Empire at all times, be subject to Imperial rights of conscription laws at all times, be subject to Imperial laws, be subject to Imperial trade mandates (free trade for example) and a host of other things. What my proposal would be aimed at would be the creation of an independent area in Eastern Skyrim whos only obligation to the Empire would be during wartime, and then only if it was the Dominion. The Empire would, as the larger force, lead defensive operations and why pooling resources such as manpower and fiscal responsibilities would be better suited to a unified party. The laws in place would protect Stormcloak Skyrim from being subjected to the possibility of higher conscription and taxation quotas as retaliation for leaving the Empire.

However, thus far the Stormcloak supporters have had little in the way of anything less than the hardline approach to the situation, which is, all of their demands whilst the Empire gets nothing. No incentive for both parties mean no possibility of an agreeable solution. The Empire doesn't want to relinquish Skyrim as it's an important provinces and Ulfric's holds want to succeed from the Empire. A diplomatic solution would be for both sides to meet in the middle for the greater good, putting aside rhetoric and finding a real solution to the problem.

That's the thing most people don't get when they read the dossier on him. They just assume that him beating the imperials would be good for the thalmor.

I don't belive that to be accurate, according to Tamerialian (real word?) demographics, [img]http://images.uesp.net/e/eb/ALL-Demographics.jpg[/img] The overall Mer population is very close to the overall Human populations, even with a disproportionate number of games taking place in Human provinces. In Morrowind we are told that Elven children are born more frequently after a war, telling me that the use of anti-contraceptive measures are employed by the Mer more often and explains the belief they reproduce less frequently than Humans.

What time period are these demographics from though ? Like I said the longer life span of elves would have balanced out populations in times of peace, however in war it would be a major problem. Unless it is actually true that the fertility rate of mer increases greatly as populations fall drastically.