Anyone else here who thinks that the Thieves Guild with all them tough guys is also greedy and vain?

Thieves use the weaknesses of others, like greed and vanity, to trick them and to steal from. They often do this purely for the necessity of survival and as a challenge, too. It is their way of living and their skill. Seeing how the Thieves Guild has got their own treasure vault and collection of trophies do these thieves have a few low motives of their own, motives usually found only among the richest. It makes them appear greedy and vain.

They then get cleaned out by one of their own kind, and well deserved, is what I thought. Not that I liked Mercer killing one of his own people, no, but emptying the treasure vault is such a classic thief's move. I wished I could have turned on Karliah and Brynolf, too, split the loot with Mercer and then go my own way. I felt more respect for Mercer than for any other member of the Thieves Guild.

How did the Thieves Guild become so tough and weak at the same time? It did not make much sense to me. It almost seems like they deserve to live in the sewers and having their pants pulled down. It certainly explains why their time of glory lies in the past and no one but you can become their new leader.

Mercer was the only thief who I felt most connected to, being a bold and cunning thief, while the rest are not more than whiny thugs with glaring eyes. I am left with the desire to kill all the remaining thieves and to lick Nocturnal's feet three times a day.

Clearly, you don't really have any idea how criminals work.
Specifically, thieves.

Since when does one need to know how criminals work to be a criminal? It is often the "not knowing" that makes one a criminal.

If someone does not work the way you want them to you get rid of them. You do not explain much besides what the purpose of your weapons are. In the end does every criminal understand one another without much saying, or they do not and try to kill each other. There is however very little education required to become a criminal.

I never really liked the thieves guild to be honest with you. I only participate in it when I get bored of skyrim after doing the main story, and the civil war. I do not add this to my role playing. I wish that their was an option where you can forgive Mercer for trying to kill you when you first interacted with that con dark elf [censored] karliah. I wish in the final fight with Mercer that you can do a 180 and start attacking Kaliah and Brynjolf. Mercer maybe a bastard that tried killing me http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g322/Raidensama/Skyrim/TESV2012-02-1618-49-05-11.jpg.

I find it ironic how the members of the thieves guild became upset when they got rob, since they themselves make a living by robbing people. Karma is certainly a [censored].

In fact I wish you can turn against the theives guild from the start. The leader would be Mjoll the Lioness of course. She will have you do certain things to get rid of these scumbags for once and for all. At the end she becomes the next Jarl of Riften and all of the corruption goes out the door.

Allow me to clarify.

Well, first I want to go on to say that I'm not a fan of the questline itself, for the most part. I don't like how you can basically bludgeon your way through it. Killing everyone should be a last resort tactic. As it is, any heavy armor wearing 'tard can go through the guild quests. I go through it because that's just what my thieves do.

But, you're not arguing that. You're arguing that they're, essentially, not "tough" enough. Or something?
What I meant by "You don't know how they work" is the whole lore surrounding Nocturnal and usual "Honor Among Thieves". Which is an in-game book by the way. Thieving is just a job, Mercer screwed up the balance, ergo they're in the fail at the start of the beginning.
I fail to understand your issue, I hope it's not as petty as it reads.

Nocturnal is a joke. I could never understand how she helped us to defeat the little piss ant worm Mercer. I don't understand it at all. You don't get any special weapons... only a cheezy ninja gear that I particularly don't want nor desire.

All that [censored] Nocturnal gave me was an overly religious http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g322/Raidensama/Skyrim/TESV2012-02-1618-40-40-04.jpg I must admit that I died a few times over laughing at it.

No, I am not saying they are not tough enough. I say they svck. The whole troop.

Everyone has got strengths and weaknesses, but why do the thieves need to have greed and vanity as weaknesses? It is a terrible combination.

Eh, the whole Nocturnal thing was hardly the worst part about the Thieves Guild.
And I didn't play it for the Nightingale Armor (Which is badass, but possibly more fitting of a master assassin), I play it for the black Guildmaster armor.

Worst thing about TTG in my opinion are the rugs, on one of the base upgrades.
Really, guild? I could have went and freakin' stolen some damn rugs as one of the first freakin' quests if you asked me too. Seriously.


I think you're confusing vanity with Confidence. Vex isn't nice, but that's just her way. Delvin is easily one of my most favorite characters in the game, as he's the most realistic and level-headed of the troop.

Greed? Really? We're THIEVES.

Frankly, I think you're just complaining about something that isn't your usual playstyle. If you want to argue that it is, I just think your reasons for hating TTG are silly, and a bit nitpicky. There's plenty more logical reasons to be displeased with things, rather than your "Pff, weak".

Lulz at people trying to rip on TES religions the same way they do on real religions.

No, I do mean vanity, like when Delvin says, "I was looking for this little beauty." What does he do next? He puts it to the other trophies on display!

I can see how Mercer Frey became guild leader and how I became guild leader, but I cannot see any of them ever becoming guild leaders. Karliah and Brynjolf in fact lack confidence to take this role for themselves.

Delvin, while not the brightest, appears to be more confident than Karliah and Brynolf.

Vex is is not nice, no, but rather is she dumb. I beat her at what she could not do (beehives). She could respect me for it, but she resents me for some reason. Not that I care about her, but would she rather have me fail? So I think she is only dumb.

Pardon me, but who says any of them want to? At all? Why do they all have to be?

I'd love to debate this, but I must sleep. T_T

I'm sure the display is more for the "trophy" hunting group ( meaning player's ) than Devlin actually wanting to keep the item's.

Sennia is keeping all her "larceny" target's to decorate her house, as she doesn't need he money and their are not all that many unique item's in the game.

I spent so much time reading how terrible the thieves guild quests are on here, I ALMOST believed it myself.

Truth is, the quest is pretty sweet, and overall pretty rewarding if you just shut up and play the game.

Thieves guilds struggling for alot of reasons, Skyrim isn't exactly the richest, most well off province in the world, on top of it theirs a civil war going on, the pickings are slim. I wish they put in more oppurtunity to restore the guild to it's former glory though, it does feel a bit cheap sometimes, but overall I like it.

TG Questline - Awesome.

TG itself - I hate it.

I love the questline but I hate the TG because I'm more of a "Gray Fox" thief. I seriously reverse pickpocket people a lot and give them gold or random items I don't need XD

You do not have to agree. The Thieves Guild is only second to the Blades in my opinion. I do like the general idea, and some of the quests were well thought of, but I have mostly disrespect for their members. I am thinking the stereotype image they have printed on them ruins it.

Speaking of shutting up, Karliah and Brynjolf talk ten times as much and each of their own than my Lydia. I hated having to pull them through the Falmer quest. I always told them to stay behind to clear the path. I could not stand having them around.

I like the Thieves Guild questline as a whole but like the OP I find the members are pathetic (with Delvin being the exception). I have more respect for hold guards.


Can you give these items to Delvin, collect the money, have him put them on display, then "steal" them back? If so I'll probably do it on my next character.

I actually really enjoyed the questline myself (when I did it with my first character), but I definitely agree with the "siding with Mercer" part.
I mean, not everyone would make the same choice, nor is everyone motivated by the same things, so I never quite understood why it wasn't an option.
My new thief character doesn't give a damn about Nocturnal or helping a guild that's already fallen apart. She just wants to have a lot of coin in her paws.

Don't know, I may try see if that work's, I had given him the "map", so next I play I will see if I can steal that back. If I could have put it on a wall i'da kept it.

Hated mercer, brynolf is one of my most favoritest npc's in the game. Its the whole loyalty thing I'm into. Also how was mercer not corrupt and greedy, he stole all the thieves guilds loot for himself.

I understand. I am not much into loyalty, but instead do I see it as Karliah when she speaks of her relationship with Nocturnal. It is not a religion or an ideology or a moral concept, it simply is a business.

Mercer is a thief, he steals. Theft alone do I not judge as greedy. Stashing it in a vault where it only sits around for no good use and where it catches dust is what I judge as greedy. Same with putting things on a display shelf for everyone to see. I see no necessity for it. I expect that a thief knows who will buy it before he steals it. Without knowing who will pay for an item can one not say that it is of any value. One needs to know to whom it is of value especially when it is a stolen item. No professional thief will take a risk for only a theoretical profit, the chance of a profit. Instead, a professional thief will only steal something when he knows he can get a price for it, then takes the risk, steals it and passes it on quickly to avoid getting caught with it. The item should find its way to a customer as soon as possible and not sit in a vault or on display like it was a bank or a merchant shop and as if it was waiting for a theoretical buyer. It is the job of the fence to make it "disappear" and to get it to the buyer.

I have to laugh about Mercer. He did try to kill me, but for all I care could he have done it out of mercy. It was Karliah who shot me. I did not expect to survive the arrow and to be rescued only so I can be mad at Mercer. For all I know could he have tried to kill me to end my misery. Even if he had planned to kill me did Karliah's choice to shoot me only made it possible for him. Her arrow alone could have killed me, too.

I think the "display" of the Larceny target's is more of a "game trophy" than an "IN-game trophy",same with the other "trophies" that show up. I think they are more for the acheivement hunter's, than that the TG has trophies and keep's identifiable loot.

I plan on keeping them simpley because, their aren't many thing's that you can use as cool decoration's for your house. It's not about my character going "well lookey what I stole, am I good or what?"

I have wondered about why they stashed so much money, it's not really explained. That a % goes to the "TG" is one thing, but they don't really explain the why-fore's.

Aye I don't see any reason why we must sell our souls to this Nocturnal broad when I could very well defeat Mercer without it. I wish their was a part where I said no to Karliah, and that the quest continues without her of course. It would be more the better battling it out without her anyways.

IMO The Nightingale Armor doesn't fit well for an assassin, well not for my taste. If I was walking around in skyrim being as an assassin I would rather wear my mage darkbrother hood gear then the Nightingale Armor. I don't like the concept of my face being completely covered up. I do spent some time designing my character so I like to see the results that I put into it.

You're confusing a bunch of criminal elements here.

Pure thieves don't use the weaknesses of others (greed and vanity): grifters do that. Robbery and burglary have nothing to do with the greed and vanity of the marks.

I don't think any of the thieves are vain - they are arrogant and condescending. Calling Delvin vain just because he displays trophies is a bit of a stretch since only other members of the TG see them.

The guild in this game is 'written' as a syndicate and you never steal from the syndicate so if you're "with" the TG then you can't support Mercer's decision/actions. They horde the money as savings like a syndicate instead of acting like a bunch of coke heads that steal and party their money away.

If they are, in fact, tough and weak at the same time it's because they are controlled by Maven who doesn't allow them to perform at their full potential making them appear weak.

As for Mercer being bold: thieves need to be careful - the prisons are full of bold thieves. He was so bold he got noticed and not cunning enough to get away with it.

I agree that most of the members are irritating and they have to give us the jobs so we as players can have something to do. A bit unrealistic, but it keeps some players from complaining that there's nothing to do.

Now something that is really pissing me off is that as I'm doing a bunch of shill, burglary, heist, and fishing jobs several pieces of my personal crafted/enchanted jewelry is missing. Mayber Mercer isn't dead after all.

Buck,
Sure some of the members of the Thieve's Guild may well have personality issues, but I suggest they are no worse than than any other Guild. You want to think, maybe, of the Companions for a moment? Its not like any of those (except, perhaps, for the fragrant Aela) are actually well-adjusted, sociable individuals and that's leaving aside the lycanthropy. How about the crew up at the Mages? I am not sure that there is even one of them that isn't a few sandwiches short of a picnic. As for the Dark Brotherhood, well that's as fine a collection of thorough-going psychopaths as you could wish not to meet.

Nah, the TG people are getting a lot of undeserved bad press on this thread. Whereas, in reality, they are no worse, and in some cases better, than the members of the other guilds and a big chunk of the Skyrim population as a whole.

I really enjoyed the main TG quest line. If you play it by their rules and try not to kill anyone on the missions they are challenging and fun.

What I didn't like were the repetative missions you had to do in each of the main holds to become guild leader. Those should have been out of the way by the end of the main quest line and there should have been some clarity to what you really had to do. You basically have to keep turning down missions just to get the ones you need. It's pretty dumb the way it's laid out and it comes after you are already supposed to be guild leader. It was also boring because all the missions were the same. They should have had more unique, fun missions there.

The other stupid thing is the one guy nearest the ratway keeps saying that he doesn't care if you are friends with the guild leader you better not make trouble after you are already guild leader.