It's not that I don't want it. It's just everyone is more interested in the combat aspect instead of the of the Roleplay elements/ and the aesthetic things in the game.

Damnit, every time they give us some hope that FNV will be more complex like the originals, they crush it by nerfing some other feature

I hope, considering the DT aspect, they don't make the "armor progression" just a linear line from puny to powerful. But that there would be at least some tactical reason to switch from metal armor to something lighter. The original games had AC values and separate DTs and DRs for individual damagetypes differing per armor (for example: combat leatherjacket had higher AC, fire and electricity resistances than metalarmor but was inferior in plasma or laser resistances and DT values), so going from metalarmor to combat leatherjacket (for example) was actually useful in certain situations. That kind of stuff would be nice to see.

So that propably means damage treshold is reduced from damage taken. (50 damage, 40 DT: 50-40 = 10 for example)



Hail the Dice :bowdown:

Ss far so good... :goodjob:

That's exactly what I'm hoping.
Ideally, I'd like them to return to the original idea they had for Van Buren, which was to have 3 different progressions which would compliment different characters better.
Heavy armor would become a nuisance for stealthy characters, and so on...

I'd argue that the progression of armor was pretty linear in Fallout 1/2. A leather jacket may have had higher AC than metal armor, but it was still more practical to choose metal armor over a leather jacket regardless. With a leather jacket if you got hit by even a SMG there was a likely chance you'd take a critical hit of 30+ HP of damage. With metal armor this outcome is only likely if you're shot in the head, and you'll still have a pretty good chance at dodging shots... especially with decent agility. You were also less likely to take much if any damage from smaller arms fire when wearing metal armor as it had a pretty high DT. I can't think of a single real good reason to wear a combat leather jacket instead of metal armor in Fallout 1/2.

Personally I don't mind the removal of DR as it was all but worthless in Fallout 3 anyway. At least with damage threshold a flat number of damage will be subtracted depending on the armor's DT and the weapon's damage; I can live with that if it means that armor type will actually mean something this time around.

The whole DT thing isn't that bad. Apparently instead of doing absolutely no damage, the attack will do a very very minimal amount of damage. So if you have an extremely high RoF weapon that does damage lower than an enemy's DT, you still have a shot at killing said enemy. I remember them explaining the formula for calculating damage when they first revealed that DT was coming back. It's a percentage thing, so 29 DAM vs. 30 DT won't completely cancel out your attack.

Oh, it wasn't perfect/optimally balanced for different strategical situations, that's for sure. But the idea of light having an edge over heavy in certain situations (small or big) was my point that could be improved upon. Like Worst said, heavy armor being a nuisance to stealthplayers for example. Maybe a general movementspeed effect (it's already been stated that armor has an effect over fasttravel speed, so I don't see why it wouldn't affect realtime as well). Basically so that one has to choose an armor that compliments ones style of playing to be most effective at it.

Armor does follow linear DT progressions upward, but outfits are now divided into Light/Medium/Heavy classes. Light moves without any movement penalty, Medium with some, and Heavy with more. Of course, some armor types come with their own built-in bonuses and penalties. I think there are compelling reasons to use different armor types, even toward the high end.

-Josh Sawyer, on the Obsidian boards

That's something at least. Here's hoping the "compelling reasons" play out well - that it's not purely a question of get heavier and heavier.

This could also be an Interim Build and DR will be back in the final game. They could be tweaking DR so it works with DT better. They probably did not have the values right in time for the road show. I hope they have both in the game, that makes more sense to me.

While the concept of DT makes sense to me, armor by it's very nature has to have DR also. Any armor spreads the force of the impact over a larger area so that the body can handle it, thereby reducing damage recieved even if it is above the threshold.

Nope CCNA, Ausir asked Josh and he confirmed that it was a design decision.

you guys do understand that with rapid firing weapons that the armor will degrade (eventually) so that you can damage it. all thought the devolpers have said that if you ignore all the signs that say danger this and that then well you will die very easily ahha.

Sorry if I copy paste again, but I feel that probably you'd be interested (again, on the Obsidian boards):

No creatures have DR. Bullet sponge enemies have a lot of HP and typically don't have DT. High HP characters with no armor are begging the player to use low DAM, high DPS weapons on them.

In my current playthrough, I definitely make specific tactical choices about when to use certain weapons/ammo based on enemy armor/health/range. The anti-materiel rifle has a very low DPS for when you get it in the game. There are some weapons you can get very early in the game that easily eclipse its DPS by a healthy margin. But the sheer amount of damage it does in a single shot can bypass pretty much any DT, making its effective DPS much higher against certain targets.

(obviously, it was Josh Sawyer that posted that)

But isn't armor value decreased as it gets damaged, and the repair condition of it drains with subsequent shots, DT surpassing or not? That pretty much would mean that if you shot a million bullets from a 9mm at a BOS Paladin he would finally die, as his PA would get more and more damaged, thus reducing the DT value to a state where it is low enough for you to hurt him, which is how IRL works I think.

I'm not sure if still works like that in New Vegas (we'll have to wait for Josh's confirmation I guess?) and most of all, I'm not sure if it worked like that for enemies even in Fallout 3.

I can't think of anything else the CND would affect, except market value (agreed about the enemies, though, they didn't spend any bullets in F3 so I don't think it's utterly preposterous to assume that their armor didn't degrade either). Anyways, I guess we'll learn soon enough.

I was refering to some of the variations of DT, sorry

Yea that's if the rapid fire weapon does more damage than the dt on the piece of armor rhe enemy is wearing. If its not, than you can sit there shooting forever and it won't do anything.

The main reason why some prisons use/used the American 180 is because the 22 lr round will not penitrate or eaven realy wear out the typical body armor issued to Guards

Meh, they said that DR can be reimplemented via a mod, so if I feel armor isn't protective enough, I'll just make a mod to add DR back to all the outfits in the game.

Didn't Sawyer say that the lowest damage you can do with any weapon is 1, despite DT? Maybe I'm mistaken.

Anyway, I'm still pissed off about the SPECIAL and HEALTH REGEN surgeries. And speaking of surgeries, would the damage reducing surgeries increase DT or DR?

No, that's a part of how DR works

WHAT? No. Nonono. I refuse to accept such shenanagins. If that is the case, I will be cracking open the GECK even before I play the game.



Why? Special surgeries are nothing new - Both Fallout 1 and 2 had them, I doubt you'll be able to increase any special stat more than once via them anyway, and they make a lot more sense than bobbleheads.

The health regen surgery seems like a good idea too, so long as it's not OP. It's really no different than having a bunch of stimpacks in your pack.



DT, since there is no more DR in the vanilla game. I suspect even a naked character has some DT - like 1 or something, to represent the fact that they can drop a hammer on their foot and not die horribly. The implants would doubtlessly improve this, probably to like 15ish or thereabouts, to shrug off handgun rounds assuming they're of similar stats to Fo3 handguns (not a given.)

The big question is whether there will be separate DT figures for various weapons types. Like, say, a shiny suit of metal armor having more laser DT than otherwise better combat armor (because it's shiny). Or a heavily padded Caesar suit made from an old football outfit being better at resisting concussive weapons like explosives better than the metal armor.

Really doubtful that every single piece of armor is going to have a list layed out with dt numbers based on every single weapon.