[Theodore Walling]

There is not a single person here who has a stable framerate on their PS3 version of Skyrim regardless of saved data file size and that is a fact.

Sorry buddy, but the frame rate fluctuation as it is at the start of the game (with patch 1.3) is acceptable. And it is the price to pay for having the v-synch enabled to avoid tearing. Which is fine to me. I can deal with 15-20 fps once in a while. It isn't that disturbing.

The main issue we are experiencing, and that people wrongly call it "frame rate drops" is lag/stuttering/hangup. It can't be a frame rate drop when opening the user menu i have to wait seconds before it shows up because it is autosaving. This is for sure a problem inherent to disc I/O and memory management. It seems like after the game save size grows above a certain limit and/or we continuously play the game for hours the system (PS3) wastes time allocating/swapping resources putting on hold (queue) anything else. Visually it looks like a frame rate drop, but in reality it is more like a short hang. I get the same thing when my computer starts hitting the virtual memory.

But it's true, the two things are probably intermixed as well. With the original frame rate drop issue that has been fixed (at least I started the game with 1.3 and I didn't notice anything major) and the game save/memory issue still cursing the PS3 game. Which in my case is becoming more and more apparent now after 1-2 or more hours. Especially in Whiterun where most of my stuff is stored.

[kitten maciver]

Im sorry too say it like this but Sony are big jerkoffs imo they are responcible for letting this buggy ps3 version passing quality and is there any word from Sony considering this ?? i havent seen something if someone has a link too any references please post them .

I dont know this whole problem is not something you can only blame on bethesda it is a whole lot of factors i wont repeat them but you may know what i mean.

Im sure a lot of people of developpers staff are not happy with how things are going in the game industry but its all about having a job getting payed and yes sadly it is a lot of " im a yesman" behaivior

well thats just my opinion

[Laura-Lee Gerwing]

Sorry buddy, but the frame rate fluctuation as it is at the start of the game (with patch 1.3) is acceptable. And it is the price to pay for having the v-synch enabled to avoid tearing. Which is fine to me. I can deal with 15-20 fps once in a while. It isn't that disturbing.

Visually it looks like a frame rate drop, but in reality it is more like a short hang. I get the same thing when my computer starts hitting the virtual memory.

Look, when I move around to look at a tree, I expect my viewpoint to move around and look at the tree, not stutter along the way. It's not acceptable at all. Sure it doesn't break the game, but it breaks the immersion and makes you feel like you're handling something fragile and not to be touched. It's just not worth playing in this state. Lag, stuttering, freezes. I'd rather play a game that doesn't have any of that.

And indeed I have done so since I stopped playing Skyrim two months ago. In fact Deus Ex is basically a smaller version of Skyrim essentially, the world is smaller and more linear, and there are far less objects that can be picked up, but it's the same "talk to NPC to kill someone" kind of game, and there's no serious issues.

Bethesda needs to focus on what they're good at rather than aim for something they're not capable of doing in the hopes that they'll pull it off. In other fields reckless ambition can be rewarding, but not in the games industry when an ambitious failure means a terrible end user experience and wasted money. Yeah well done Beth, you tried to create a massive world with never-ending quests and radiant AI. Didn't work. Give me my money back please, thanks.

[Hayley O'Gara]

Up to 13MB save file. Probably 130+ hours on the game.

Occasional lag/FPS/whatever, generally after 3+ hours of play. Otherwise it runs very well, much better than these forums would lead you to believe.

[Laura]

The exacerbation of the fps issue is what makes the game unplayable. Don't get me wrong, I've played it on a decent pc recently and the ps3 version is certainly not as smooth. But until the issue is made worse, the game is entirely immersive. Once it gets worse, you get frustrated and the immersion is dropped.

So no, the overall issue isn't that there's a lower frame-rate. That's expected with a game so powerful on systems that have onlyu 512mbs of RAM in a world where 8gigs is becoming of a typical pc. Especially on a system that takes that 512mb of RAM and divides it into two unnecessary sections.

So, without the persistent cells not refreshing, the game would be entirely playable for the long term. The fact that it isn't as good as on other systems is then a simple red herring (besides the point). By this I mean you are entirely right about the existence of other factors contributing to the problem, but incorrect to say that this exacerbation is a mere footnote as it is the part that makes the game not fun.

[Madeleine Rose Walsh]

We already know this

[Laura Wilson]

When the vast majority of individuals don't even understand what lag actually is then it doesn't hurt to point-out that this is an engine-driven issue which relates to memory utilization and that it exists in every single Bethesda Gamebryo game released to date.

That fundamental disconnect between the term lag and what is actually going on here demonstrates a base level of ignorance in the gaming community as a whole and, frankly, it's a shining example of why much of what is posted here gets outright dimissed. (spelling and grammatical mistakes aside)

Not that someone misunderstanding the problem renders said problem invalid though. (it simply points to there perhaps not being a proper amount of testing and understanding in their complaints and findings)

[Kristina Campbell]

Up to 13MB save file. Probably 130+ hours on the game.

Occasional lag/FPS/whatever, generally after 3+ hours of play. Otherwise it runs very well, much better than these forums would lead you to believe.

Are you calling some of us liars? I have 14MB and my game has crashed at least 30+ times. I've quit playing because it's just not enjoyable. So your game play is different, that is no reason to accuse the forum posters of giving out misleading information of their game play.

[JD bernal]

Another case of "Global warming wut? It's cold outside MAH HOUSE" mentality

[Laura Hicks]

CopyCat, how did Bethesda ever regress in their PS3 development capabilities from Fallout 3 (the base game)? First, the DLC ruined all that, now the base game of Skyrim is just trash in the performance department...

Do you think it was it that release date? The original Fallout 3 wasn't perfect on the PS3, but it never really dipped below 25 fps. Is it possible Fallout 3's engine was still riding on the wave of relatively decent coding done for the PS3 version of Oblivion by 4J Studios and then in rewriting a lot of stuff for Skyrim, Bethesda themselves just didn't have a clue or something?

[Joanne Crump]

I have had untold problems with Skyrim and my playstation is crashing at least three times a day and corrupting the save data on my console, not to mention that i can not complete missions due to enemies not turning up or quests not being completed because characters won't acknowledge me when they need to for me to progress. I have enjoyed Bethesda's work but its always been at a cost. So my point and case is what will we do to help prevent this happening in the future? These forums clearly show Bethesda to have an intellegent fan base and together we could ask a few questions and keep asking until we get an answer (after emailing untold times Bethesda have never answered me).

First question -
Why release games that you know to have extensive playability issues. (the list is endless)

*For the people who say all games have issues on release I agree however Fallout 3 GOTY edition came well after the original and it crashed so badly I had to stop playing it, New Vegas has been out for some time and is still experiencing glitches which slow the gameplay down and often crashes the PS3 and so on...

Second Question -
If your PS3 becomes corrupted to a point where it needs repairing or replacing due to Skyrims glitches and bugs will they help recover the lost data or even replace broken goods?

Sony obviously wont put right what damage the game MAY cause to our consoles, my PS3 has had to reboot at a minimum of 30 times and warns me that I may permanently loose data, I know Skyrim has corrupted my save files so I have had to delete them, this goes for save files for Bioshock 2, Fallout New Vegas and a handful of Skyrim save files. (I have not checked my other content, such as PNS downloads etc, so cant be sure if anything else has been corrupted)

- Other questions should be included by the game owners for the PS3 and then put to Bethesda in a new thread signed by anyone who agrees, we need to ask these questions or things wont change and more importantly we deserve answers and actions from Bethesda - they have the money but we dont have the goods (in my opinion)

- To make this post unbiased i want to say that i appreciate as I'm sure most do, that Bethesda have provided a patch and are working on another however what I am saying with this post, and I hope you agree, is that patches are good for games that work and could use additional tweaking, not for games that are unplayable. We don't need to have patience in this situation and deserve to be treated with respect as a paying fanbase.

Bethesda should be happy to know that we all do love their games and want to enjoy them with minimal fuss.


(Finally I suggest as a third question we should sign an online petition to Sony and ask for a full expination as to why they have let Bethesda release this game onto the PS3 console when it obviously lacks the basic requirements to allow for an owner to play the game without major interuption to the gameplay, particularly the glitches which prevent you from completing the main quests and completing the game. (Which I certinaly have not been able to do and can prove it with video footage or anyone from sony or Bethesda coming to my house and looking)


If the next few replys are in agreement with this post I will start a thread (on wednesday 04th jan) and we can begin asking the questions. Thankyou for reading this and I hope it gets you thinking about solutions from our perspective and not the marketing team at Bethesda.

I support the thread you mentioned as well. +1 to you.

These lag and frame rate issues must be fixed. No buts about it. They render the game unplayable. And if these issues can't be fixed, then they should at least work on optimizing and releasing a new updated PS3 port, one that works as well as the X-Box and PC versions.

[jessica sonny]

I have had untold problems with Skyrim and my playstation is crashing at least three times a day and corrupting the save data on my console, not to mention that i can not complete missions due to enemies not turning up or quests not being completed because characters won't acknowledge me when they need to for me to progress. I have enjoyed Bethesda's work but its always been at a cost. So my point and case is what will we do to help prevent this happening in the future? These forums clearly show Bethesda to have an intellegent fan base and together we could ask a few questions and keep asking until we get an answer (after emailing untold times Bethesda have never answered me).

First question -
Why release games that you know to have extensive playability issues. (the list is endless)

*For the people who say all games have issues on release I agree however Fallout 3 GOTY edition came well after the original and it crashed so badly I had to stop playing it, New Vegas has been out for some time and is still experiencing glitches which slow the gameplay down and often crashes the PS3 and so on...

Second Question -
If your PS3 becomes corrupted to a point where it needs repairing or replacing due to Skyrims glitches and bugs will they help recover the lost data or even replace broken goods?

Sony obviously wont put right what damage the game MAY cause to our consoles, my PS3 has had to reboot at a minimum of 30 times and warns me that I may permanently loose data, I know Skyrim has corrupted my save files so I have had to delete them, this goes for save files for Bioshock 2, Fallout New Vegas and a handful of Skyrim save files. (I have not checked my other content, such as PNS downloads etc, so cant be sure if anything else has been corrupted)

- Other questions should be included by the game owners for the PS3 and then put to Bethesda in a new thread signed by anyone who agrees, we need to ask these questions or things wont change and more importantly we deserve answers and actions from Bethesda - they have the money but we dont have the goods (in my opinion)

- To make this post unbiased i want to say that i appreciate as I'm sure most do, that Bethesda have provided a patch and are working on another however what I am saying with this post, and I hope you agree, is that patches are good for games that work and could use additional tweaking, not for games that are unplayable. We don't need to have patience in this situation and deserve to be treated with respect as a paying fanbase.

Bethesda should be happy to know that we all do love their games and want to enjoy them with minimal fuss.


(Finally I suggest as a third question we should sign an online petition to Sony and ask for a full expination as to why they have let Bethesda release this game onto the PS3 console when it obviously lacks the basic requirements to allow for an owner to play the game without major interuption to the gameplay, particularly the glitches which prevent you from completing the main quests and completing the game. (Which I certinaly have not been able to do and can prove it with video footage or anyone from sony or Bethesda coming to my house and looking)


If the next few replys are in agreement with this post I will start a thread (on wednesday 04th jan) and we can begin asking the questions. Thankyou for reading this and I hope it gets you thinking about solutions from our perspective and not the marketing team at Bethesda.

I do very much support this.

[Kim Kay]

Are you calling some of us liars? I have 14MB and my game has crashed at least 30+ times. I've quit playing because it's just not enjoyable. So your game play is different, that is no reason to accuse the forum posters of giving out misleading information of their game play.

I didn't say that individual people were giving misleading information of their gameplay. I said that this forum, as a whole, gave me the wrong impression of what to expect from my gameplay. Reading here gives the impression that playing Skyrim on the PS3 is simply a matter of time before the game becomes completely unplayable and the game completely broken. Having played a fair amount of it on my PS3, I find that to be not the case. For my individual game, I encounter periods of slow play and have had 2 or 3 game crashes. But I've also had tons of hours of smooth gameplay, even in cities and even after my save file ballooned over 10MBs. That's all.

[Roanne Bardsley]

The OP hit the nail on the head. Thread should have been closed immediately after the first post.

[Jessica Colville]

Excuse me, I read on a forum and was told that Bethesda is asking people with specific problems with The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim to send them a copy of their saved game data so they can have a look at it. My saved file(s) have gotten to the point where I can no longer even enter the game on them, as I become trapped in the initial loading screen.

Would anyone be able to inform me as to how I can go about informing Bethesda of my data so that they can see if they may find use in examining it? As I have no idea of how I would go about doing so.

[Kahli St Dennis]

CopyCat, how did Bethesda ever regress in their PS3 development capabilities from Fallout 3 (the base game)? First, the DLC ruined all that, now the base game of Skyrim is just trash in the performance department...

Do you think it was it that release date? The original Fallout 3 wasn't perfect on the PS3, but it never really dipped below 25 fps. Is it possible Fallout 3's engine was still riding on the wave of relatively decent coding done for the PS3 version of Oblivion by 4J Studios and then in rewriting a lot of stuff for Skyrim, Bethesda themselves just didn't have a clue or something?

My bet would be on the release date. The game just feels kind of rushed and unpolished with half-hearted implemented features and probably lacks proper optimization as well.
With the "new engine", it seems mainly graphical features are rewritten like lighting and shadows which makes sense that improved graphics can be more demanding and run worse if the hardware stays the same. But on a fixed environment it's important only improve graphics so far as you can maintain the overall performance for example due to more effective coding or new techniques. Bethesda didn't do a bad job in this regard, the graphics are vastly superior but the performance still almost comparable to their previous game. But those big fps drops in some areas shouldn't happen and should be noticable during testing and fixed before release. Same with image quality.
And that on top of the old core. The engine is certainly not completely rewritten from scratch and still shows the same symptoms like Fallout 3 with DLCs.

[Tiffany Holmes]

finally a peoper thread about the fps issue and lag...

i believe some people live in some kind of dream world of fheir own, claiming their game not only runs fine, they even go about stating it runs FLAWLESSLY!

yep thats right! no stutter no lag no fps drops unless they are attacked by a horde of enemies and five dragons simultaneously.

some people seem to just not be able to tell the difference between 30 frames and 10...They will keep saying their game runs flawlessly if they are able to move their charachter from point a to point b.

thats why they only will complain when the fps drops to 2-3 frames per second. thats the only time it makes any difference from them.

other than that give these guys a 15 frames per second game that stutters and they are just fine with it... to be hinest I dont know if i want to be as deluded as they are... they obviously dont mind playing a [censored] port...

My game gets a slight bit of lag when it's snowing or when the game autosaves. When I leave the snowy area or the autosave completes, things go back to normal. Now, I don't know if I'm "delusional," but the game takes me from A to B and doesn't lag severely or freeze, so I feel my $60 was well spent. I can't really say I appreciate you basically calling me a moron for still being able to enjoy a functional copy of the game simply because I'm not a tech-spec nerd who is ultra concerned with framerates, textures, etc.

My game looks good, works fine, and is enjoyable. 'Nuff said.

[Sudah mati ini Keparat]

On a positive note, the latest update by Pete (Hines?) posted on the forum gives me hope.
"Through this we've learned the game can get in some states where it severely taxes the PS3 in particular. We've been working hard to find and fix those with your help.

[Sylvia Luciani]

I bought Skyrim for the PS3, as I did not want to risk getting my disk scratched or melting due to prolonged use by getting it on 360. What a mistake I made.

Hopefully Bethesda can fix this problem, or make its effects less profound.

[BethanyRhain]

Those who say "My game runs smooth and has a great framerate" are the type of people who don't know the difference between 1080p and 1080i, don't know what upscaling is, and think the Sony official PS3 Headset is the same as 7.1 audio.

They think Dominos is good pizza and Burger King is just as good as grass fed prime rib.

[Chase McAbee]

Those who say "My game runs smooth and has a great framerate" are the type of people who don't know the difference between 1080p and 1080i, don't know what upscaling is, and think the Sony official PS3 Headset is the same as 7.1 audio.

They think Dominos is good pizza and Burger King is just as good as grass fed prime rib.

You forget that there are people that are just used to bad framerates or are just not sensitive enough to recognize the differences (e.g. between 20 and 30fps). Thus, not everyone not saying "its ok for me" is just dumb.

[Danii Brown]

Perhaps they mostly play Bethesda games and have thus become acustomed to ~15 fps.

[Marquis T]

You forget that there are people that are just used to bad framerates or are just not sensitive enough to recognize the differences (e.g. between 20 and 30fps). Thus, not everyone not saying "its ok for me" is just dumb.

They are maybe not "just dumb" rather, willfully ignorant. Stubbornly refusing to accept new data and experiences, or to learn outside of their comfort zone. CGs to them

[Kayla Keizer]

They are maybe not "just dumb" rather, willfully ignorant. Stubbornly refusing to accept new data and experiences, or to learn outside of their comfort zone. CGs to them

For example, and not to be rude but truly for example, there's a thread still near the top of this sub-section of the forum with an OP that insists, regardless of explanations, that the 360 version of Skyrim runs at 1080p when it, in fact, does not and the whole truth over upscaling and the difference between "1080p support" and "1080p native resolution" have been explained several times. When people don't actually recognize the reality of what they're seeing (or don't want to recognize it), they assume the reality of what they're seeing is what they want it to be and what the ideal situation for them would be. In other words, people start claiming a fluctuating fps going down to, say, 20 fps is actually a smooth 30 fps and their game runs perfectly and smoothly when it doesn't just as some people insist the 360 version runs at 1080p when it doesn't. People are stubborn and insist, sometimes, that they truly have a grasp on a concept when they really don't despite true and valid explanations from more experienced people explaining otherwise.

[Ronald]

If I had a dollar for every bunghead who spouted off about how his XBOX360 "runs every game at 1080p"... Wasn't halo 3 like 640p native?