I GECKulate that Obsidian will get railed for their gun animations just as much as Bethesda was - if for no other reason than it's something to [censored] about. To me the gun animations are not horrible as I play in 1st person almost exclusively and don't need an animation to be 100% perfect to "get it" IMHO. But I'm also quite sure that a ton of folks won't be happy with them, will complain about them endlessly and in the end it will amount to nothing, no changes, nada.

My view is that the animations are looking Great and I'm not expecting every gun to be 100% perfect to what we know them to be in Today's time, as long as it's close then I'll have alot of fun with the game. Gun animations are a nice-item to have, perfect animations are unrealistic and not required for me.

Bring on New Vegas!

It's a divergence because the one in 1958 (is this really when the CARBINE collapse able stock came out) anyway, didn't have a REMOVABLE carry handle. You know the thing you take out so you can put a stinkin ACOG sight on.

I did a bit of looking and it's really hard to destingish these details because the M4 is so similar, but it would appear that the tublar buttstock wasn't even introduced until 1966. Before that they just used a shortened version of the fixed buttstock. From what I can gather the removeable carry handle wasn't a feature until 1997.

There is no confirmation they are different guns, Wiki's are CONSTANTLY wrong. I really think it's the same gun but with an attachment.

You're also facing the other obvious problem that the CAR15 was designed for special forces, there weren't alot of them during the vietnam war (relative to other weapons), I really don't think you'd find it lying around the mojave wasteland.

Bottomline:
That gun (whatever designation you want to give it) is the product of modern wars. It does NOT fit in the fallout universe.

I see the Korean War era weapons and such as teh cutoff point.

Considering some of the weapons that were in Interplay's Fallouts were contemporary weapons, I don't know why you are angry about the divergence. They really didn't play it up until FO3 anyway.

Not angry. I'm trying to prove my point that it doesn't belong.

It's kinda undone though because of the Desert Eagle from FO1 was designed in the 80s.

I rest my case.

I agree with this. And, I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a gun nut. (I only own one .357 handgun)

I never cared for many of the weapons mods like 20th century weapons for this reason. They just didn't "feel" right to me in that I never felt that they fit with something from the 40's & 50's. And as much as I LOVE FWE, if there is one problem that I have with it is all the silly guns it adds. It's just a little silly IMO, but I still love the mod despite that, lol!

But, if there are two GLARING omissions in FO3, to me they are the M1 Garand (or just a simple semi-automatic rifle), and the BAR. Both were heavily used in the period, so, to me, these both fit perfectly in the timeline. I do believe however that there is finally a semi-auto rifle in New Vegas, but don't believe they put in a BAR. That's unfortunate as it would have been way better than some of these other weapons being discussed, IMO.

Well there is a whole series of LMG's now.
They've already said weapons will have "tiers" meaning there's going to be more LMG's. I think it's quite possible they'll include a BAR (which I would love)


One last thing is that when you think of a war an iconic weapon comes to mind:
WW2 - Garand
Korean War - Garand
Vietnam War - M16 (the classic look)
1990s-2010 small wars - M4

It's really not so much about the details of timeline, just what I think of when I see that gun.

Ah good i can see where you are confused! Since we do not have a method of distinguishing between the two definitively... The AR was utilized as a temporary gun to replace the M1 Garand until a different gun was developped to replace it, they just kept using it and people are still complaining about it too. The AR was already in use by the navy in the fifties (this is also the reason i believe it most likely derives it's roots from the AR), also ARs were issued in a variety of configurations. http://world.guns.ru/assault/as36-e.htm is very similar to what some original AR-10s and AR-15s, i couldn't find any original images, but this is very close. If you don't trust wiki i can give you page numbers on multiple books which would confirm much of this... As to the stock... the common A2 stock which is associated with the M16 still has a buffer tube and while i don't believe that there were standard issue collapsable stocks, they definitely existed at the time.
Just so ya know, it is very common to put an acog on a M16 style carry handle as you can see http://www.ultimak.com/products/TA01inst.jpg and i am pretty sure the optic in Fallout has AT MOST visual similarity to an Acog. A Trijicon scope is base on technology which i highly doubt that Obsidian would include...
There is something that really baffles me though... The assault rifle in the game must not use a gas system, it doesn't have a buffer tube on the rear of the rifle which implies it uses a piston similar to AK-47s which i suppose is consistent with the assault rifles in Fallout 3.

Sorry to double post!
I agree with your point on the M1 Garand, it seems like they really want to avoid putting the .308 caliber in the game any more than they have to.

You know, that is perhaps the best description on this issue I have ever seen and it captures what I feel perfectly. IMO, to have a game with this 40's and 50's retro style to it and not have an M1 and BAR is as bad as having a Vietnam game without an M-16. That's a brilliant picture you painted there my friend! Thank you!

So association matters more than the facts? Brilliant logic...

Well, if you want to be an jerk about it be my guest, but there's really no need for that kind of insult. But the FACT remains that some of these guns being discussed came along MANY years after the retro period that the Fallout series is themed in. In other words, the period around the WW II era in our time. The association's that were made generally fall into the major conflicts where some of these weapons were used, again a fact. Look at this list of common WWII infantry weapons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_World_War_II_infantry_weapons

There are no modern type M-16's and so forth used then. That's all I'm saying. Obviouslly, the devs did NOT intend to remain period specific with their weapon lists and that's OK. I don't have a problem with that in the least. All I'm saying is that there are much better choices if you are trying to stay with weapons from the retro style theme. And again, no need to be a jerk and insult me as I don't really give a crap. As I said, I'm not really a gun guy anyway.

My brother out-gunned a sub-machine gun (Can't remember the model) with a leaver-action (Winchester I believe). The sub-machine gun put out one bullet every 1.5 seconds on average and my bro put out two bullets per second on average.

Edit: GAH! It was a sub-machine gun not a machine gun

well, um, no, theres a video with a tv robot were a lever action rifle is being used and its without vats and its REALLY fast, like the gun could be automatic with that speed, its really stupid

It wasn't an insult by any stretch and i am very sorry you took it that way. I was saying that is illogical. My point was that while it may not be all that common, it does not make it inaccurate for that period. Also, it's not like they just stopped making weapons at 1960 bombs didn't fly until 2077...

Actually, it IS confirmed, because the sources for the Wiki are posts by J.E. Sawyer here on the forums, which I read when they were originally posted, and can be read from the links in the sources section of the Wiki.

Josh Specifically told us that the Marksman Carbine is separate from the Assault Carbine, and that the Assault Carbine fires 5mm. He hasn't told us what the Marksman Carbine fires.

How come you guys have all the real good conversations when I'm at work?

Because you made the tragic mistake of working for a living, instead of doing something lucrative like politics, or drug dealing.
:disguise:

I have a question for you... I may be wrong (or have missed something or some post), but is it your belief that anything past a certain cutoff date (say 1955 :shrug:) becomes inappropriate for Fallout?

(and if so... why exactly?)

It's a conspiracy, we strategize with knowledge of your schedule.
Alternatively you could be like me and get on at work haha.

Well, Fallout universe has apparently split from ours after WW2, in 1945. Check The Vault. It's got some stuff for a long night reading

Someone should make a separate forum topic of just the good bits and only let mods post the links. B)

Funny thing about that... In Fallout 1, I can't recall anything 1950'ish that was not pre-war salvage or junked pre-war cars. You don't see greaser gangs, or speak to anyone that uses 50's dialect, or even looks remotely 50's like (except Decker and Butch :shrug:).

The whole setting may have been retconned entirely, or it may just be my own person mistunderstanding of the setting, but it always appeared to me that Fallout was set in the future of the 50's aesthetic ideal. (meaning that if they made something it would reflect the 50's sense of style and design, not that it couldn't exist if it didn't exist in the 50's). I wish I could get Leonard Boyarski to comment directly on this.

(I guess this can be considered something that 'bummed me out', as with FO3, suddenly the world is a 50's time capsule full of 50's stereotypes. :shrug:)
*But it doesn't explain the plasma rifles.

Can't too busy at work. Working. My. Ass. Off. I didn't even have time for bodily funtions today. Looks like the weapons thread is gonna hit post limit soon. I'll make a new one at 200, and I'll start it up with a mention of these rifles.

Oh boy, you can subtitle the thread "The Great Debate". 'Twill be glorious.

I sit around filing ATF forms most of the time and twice a week CCW classes pretty exciting...

Thank you, and I also appologize that I took it wrong. It's all good. :goodjob:




You know, one of the greatest things about this game is how much the devs left to our own imagination and the ability of the player to create the world in their own mind - how they envision it - in their individual RP's. I've always loved the motif and imagined that the weapons of WWII fit the games "era" better than more modern type weapons. Therefore, I never actually considered that the weapons could ultimately evolve into our modern weapons. But, I'll freely admit that I'm hopelessly stuck in the 40's & 50's in the game, lol. :whistling:

The main thing is that the devs gave us a game left to much of our own imagination (or modding ability :hubbahubba: ). We have the freedom interpret and play it as each of us see's fit to play, and that suits our own vision of the game! :fallout:

But one undeniable truth is that people love a HUGE variety of weapons! :flamethrower: :gun:

/hijack