Truth right there!
And just as another point, we don't really know the origins of these weapons. They could have been made by post war organizations like the Gunrunners or the NCR, and they just so happened to modify their old designs (The service rifle) into weapons that resemble modern tactical carbines. Who knows?

Association matters because it's what I percieve when I look at a game. Association is what makes an atmosphere in-game immersive and believeable. Fallout has some liberty with this because it's a fictonal universe

Despite that liberty think about the following:

Look at this screen shot: http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100307163247/fallout/images/c/ce/Military_assault_rifle.jpg

Now, if you did NOT know about F: NV and someone asked you to guess what the subject material of this game would be, based soley on that screenshot, what would you say?
1) "Oh that game must be about Somalia... are they making another Black Hawk Down game?
2) "Oh that game must be about special forces in Vietnam"
3) "Oh that game must be the next installment in the Fallout series"


Realize that they've chosen the Ratpack era to model New Vegas.
What if they added in a casino that is not consistent with that look, like say the Luxor, which has a modern look?
Wouldn't it seem out of place?

Do you see what I'm getting at?

Your details are still off anyway because the fallout universe diverges after WW2 before the AR15 was even being developed. Of course, you can make the argument that the guy who invented it was still alive and yaddah yaddah but we're back to the whole association thing.

Fallout universe follows most importantly the 1950s ish mindset - that mindset is consistent with the use of kick-ass type weapons (Think Garand, M14 here) - the AR15 and consequently M16 and carbine versions were accpted into the military because of a growing desire for lightweight weapons. This was due to some research done, I forget who, found that soldiers weren't effectively using the large guns because of the recoil and size and feel (Garand is a real beast, so is M14). A smaller, lighter, less powerful weapon would be best for the average draftee. I've also heard that the M16 was designed, with plastics, to LOOK TOYLIKE so it would be easier for draftees to kill with it.

The mindset that allowed the M16/M4/Car15 etc to become accepted into the military in our universe does not exist in the Fallout universe.


Sidebar:
I'll say again, it's not that I'm terribly bothered about its inclusion (Theres so many other things I'm excited for in the game and it's something i'll just ignore). I'm still arguing because I'm stubborn and I know I'm right in this case (ofc). :shifty:

Well opinion is totally valid and i applaud you for defending your opinion, but i don't see how saying it shouldn't be included in a game because it doesn't meet your associations is a valid argument.
I don't find it to be at odds, but that is irrelevant. Also, as i said earlier the AR was intended as a stop gap weapon but the replacement was never fully developed. The XM8 was the closest the true replacement came to being realized, but that too was scrapped (yeah Battlefield lies). And that study was called Project SALVO.

I would disagree with that on principle, I mean look at the AK-112 from Fallout 1/2, it shoots 5mm which is actually a weaker round than 5.56, and it was an obsolete model by the time of the war, that implies that somewhere down the line the desire for lighter guns that shoot intermediate calibers definitely existed and that guns were designed (or purchased from Russia in the case of the AK-112) that satisfied that desire.

Now, If I had to guess, the Assault Carbine, the Service rifle, and the Marksman Carbine all belong to the M series of rifles. I suppose the reason I guess that is because they are similar to existing M series rifles today (score one for your association argument), but also because in Fallout 3 it is stated that the R-91, a 5.56mm G3 clone, replaced the older M series of rifles.

So that would mean that at some point, the rifles that you're complaining about were replaced by a more "retro" design, but one that still used intermediate calibers. Now, if I had to guess the motivations for that by the prewar government, I'd say it had to do with the refocusing of infantry to Power Armored infantry, who would use Big Guns and energy weapons. Therefore any unpowered infantry would be simply mass fire support for the heavy hitters, with less focus on Spec Ops, to which the Assault Carbine and Marksman Carbine are suited.

Please note that this is all speculative, but it does demonstrate that the sort of stuff that goes on in the Fallout Universe is a bit more complex than just "The 50s stayed the 50s all the way up to the 2070s", even though that's a more or less accurate generalization.

Yea, it's all just opinion.

I mean I see the Fallout universe a certain way (I'm sure there's pleanty who would line up with my perception), and there's people who see it another way.

There's not a way to prove either side because we're aruing about an imaginary world.

The M4 and the M16 look bad from any view, wiether it be Fallout or real life, Id much rather have a trusty Kalishnokov with me than an M4. The AK-47 loves you more, if you hit it against a tree, itd be fine....as for the M16 and M4, well....lets just say its not pretty....(the barrel ended up 50 feet away from the tree)

Reliability is based purely upon the piston system not the overall durability of a rifle. There are piston AR's as well, LMT manufactures a excellent line of them. The direct impingement system used now is very reliable as well, not like the M16's in the Vietnam war.
Also, the name is Kalashnikov after Mikhail Kalashnikov. Also due to their design AKs are much less accurate, particularly at range. I have AKs i wouldn't trust to hit a silhouette at 50 yards reliably.

I agree 100% about the AK, but the m16 is not ugly, its elegant and beautiful, as I said its the second most recognizable gun in the world

How dare you promote something so vile and detrimental to the community and children as politics :stare:

Also remember that a lot of the problem with the M16 resulted from the incorrect advisemant that the guns were self cleaning. They didn't even issue them with cleaning kits. Combine that with messy, humid jungle combat and you have a recipe for jamtastic disaster.