you have three options in the game

go balls-to-the-walls on everything
hit & run
sneak & shoot

only one destruction won't work with is sneak & shoot. that's not a lack of tactics with destruction, that's a lack of tactics with the game (and you can get the sneak and shoot with conjuration (bound bow))

on a different note my game is modded with with Mysty's ballanced magic mod from skyrimnexus. it helps lower tier destruction spells stay effective at higher masteries and also has esp's for magicka regen and dualcasting effectiveness.
If I was using a console I would probably submit to a vampire and take the necromage perk for a 25% boost to destruction damage.

don't forget, that also boosts magicka regen and every spell in-game that effects you (and active effects that aren't from your gear)

I have a lot of experience with the necromage vampire combination, my current character is master of the undead (RP wise). Potions are classed as magickal so they are boosted as well as all enchanted gear being worn, all spells cast by the undead player also are boosted and if used against the undead are further boosted.

Actually it goes a bit beyond just mana regeneration, but that is a good starting point.

Spells should have a constant damage to mana ratio of 1 to 1, since you traded 10 health for 10 magicka at the level screen. Having anything less would mean you lose more health/magicka than the opponent lose health for every spell you cast.

Impact should be 50% chance only and dragons outright immune to it.

Cost reduction should be capped at 80%. The cap is lowered by 5% for each armor piece you wear.

Spell damage should scale with skill at +1% damage per skill level.

I didn`t know about this, but POPPYCOCK. You can`t formulate things like this for Human Beings. All you do is create some stupid theory that may please the mass crowd.

How about dropping that crap and just making an rpg in a CREATIVE and IMAGINATIVE manner instead of trying to pidgeon hole people just to make bucket loads more of cash? Did their little crap graph indicate that people are too stupid to want CHOICE?

That`s why we get games that are dumbed down and often make little sense because they`ve been put through some crap mathematical anolysis to gain the MOST CASH, not the BEST RPG.

Sorry, couldn`t help myself. the anger just came out. I just don`t like this `Money beyond all reason of the end product` crap. I`m surprised Skyrim is as passable as it is with their ethos.

From my own experience as a melee foe against mages, it seems that some routine destruction spells can prevent melee foes from just waltzing up to you. I haven't tried them from the mage point of view yet.

Are you fine with the fact taht you have to use ancillary skills to make 1H, 2H, or Archery viable in the first place?

If you can beat the game on Master using just destruction, that is terrible design. You can't beat the game on Master with just 1H, just 2H, or just Archery. I'd give you better odds with just Conjuration or just Restoration + Follower.

A more legitimate complaint is that destruction has fewer compatible skills because you basically need Enchanting, while Smithing isn't absolutely required for melee. I imagine Sneak is equally essential for pure Archery, though.

Todd was talking at a conference about gameplay mechanics. I may understand your feelings, but I don't think they are relevant here. Todd is talking about gameplay experience. That frustration and boredom are somewhat opposite extremes in terms of gameplay.

If magicka cost is a problem why dont you just solve it with console commands? Infact many problems can be solved with consle commands. Also if you're a PC user im sure there are good mods out there to fix some of the issues.

Now if you're on xbox it is equally easy to mod your game-save as long as you own a usb-stick.

If you're on PS3 it doesnt matter anyways because your game is probly broken anyways.


I agree that Skyrim was not released as a finished game, but however there are some things you have to fix yourself even tho you paid Bethesda for a decent game.

Edit: I also agree that destruction isnt very well done. Infact it's a major pain the way it is, I think destruction magic is way to powerfull. Others feel the complete oppsite, that it is to weak. However the sadest part is that destruction magic is at very bottom on my list of complaints.

Other more annoyings things that comes to mind is the fact that dragons never land on solid ground --> I cant get more dragon souls. Also not being able to finish important quests because the game has to many bugs/glitches is also extremly-super-nice.

My biggest beef with beth games is that you always have to self limit to avoid 'breaking' the game - I think a good rpg wouldn't let you become the god character in all aspects of the game. You might be the best swordsman, but you'll still need strategy when fighting a mage. With Beth you can be the best at everything and walk over anything that gets in your way. An angry bear should always be a trial for someone with a sword, although a novice archer should be able to take him down. I don't want TES 6 to become a game of rock paper scissor, but some skills should always be beaten by certain enemies - in the old side scrollers, there was often a sweet spot where the bad guy coudln't hit you - plant your character there and mash the 'shoot' button - it wasn't considered cheating because to put your character in harm's way was stupid.
I hope that for tes 6 the team makes you use every exploit to stay alive - and that they design the game to keep your character from becoming a god until the very end.

OP, nice post, agree.

One other issue.

Pretty early on, you learn to dual-cast spells. Which equals more damage.

Why, when you learn master spells, is that thrown out of the game? You have to cast master spells with two hands, but NOT dual-cast. So, it's a single cast damage spell.

Your best bet is to dual-cast chain lightning - and use the 60 spell damage book to learn that spell. There are a lot of books that teaches you that spell at 40 spell damage.

I much prefer chain lightning because dual-cast makes it 120 damage, where a single-cast master spell at max level gives you 90 spell damage.

None of my spells have cast costs. I just wear robes or armor or even a ring that reduces that spell types cast cost by 3665% percent. (Not cheating just using alchemy, smithing and enchanting to the best of my abilities.) And yes I did this on xbox no mods required.

Enchant abuse is not required IMO...

Impact, unfortunately, is.

It's not entirely boring or frustrating.. but that does make it rather restrictive. It's ONLY good dual-casting the targets destro spells.

The "thrower" tier 1 spells which could be fun, have absolutely no scaling
Traps and cloaks are likewise underwhelming.

damage scaling would have done OH SO MUCH allowing single off-hand casts to actually be a valid approach... yah, you lose stagger, but it would allow for proper spellswords and more interesting left/right hand pairings as pure mage... only requiring dual-cast when impact stagger is desired.

My pure mage is fun though... I am playing on normal due to underwhelming damage #'s, but it's still fun... and I only have the ha;f-off perks and another 30% reduc (Archmage Robes + 1 15% destro reduc) I have not, nor will I, power level enchanting, and whilst I am using it, I am not sure I'll even take anything besides the first perk and just use it to fill gaps in my equipment... I like actually finding equipment so I don't want to craft everything... maybe when I get to the end of the characters run I'll finish her off with maxed out enchanting... but I still won't use -100% reduc

because IMO that really does make it boring.

cheating? no

Circular boosting exploit/abuse? absolutely.

what fun is it when your only stat that matters becomes (hp doesn't matter... spell use should be designed at avoiding getting hit)....... pointless?

I can respect that. And skyrim is boring enough as it is so i can see your point. Who wants a sword that does 1 million+ damage, absorbs 1000 health, and never runs out of enchantment uses anyways...

You can roleplay as a god? Theres something.

This is what bothers me about the people saying destruction is completely underpowered. You guys seem to want destruction to be completely powerful on its own. But you seem to forget that one-handed, two-handed, and archery all require additional skills to become the power-houses you want destruction to be. I agree destruction could use some work, but come on, none of the other combat skills are godlike on their own. Why should destruction be any different? The suggestion of using multiple skills is a completely valid one,

I avoided the mass rage in this forum by simple playing on Apprentice on my Destruction mages. You are completely right, at least in our cases.

I've been reading a lot of threads about destruction being underpowered and I am begining to understand how destruction is not underpowered. It has area affect spells, passive damaging spells just incase you decide to ignore the odd skeleton in favor of the more powerful Draugr deathlord and runes for those sneaky types that like to lay a trap just incase they need to retreat and recuperate.
However magic use still has a few oddities; dualcasting is a waste of mana for a small gain in power, a serious problem when you need to deal with a mob as when a mage is depleted of mana he has only his fists to save him.

destruction does become less powerful with higher levels though, so I suppose the simple solution is to not gimp your character by raising unused skills. Doesn't change the areas of the game that have static high level creatures though. [edit] I suppose those creatures are not too powerful for a skilled user of destruction.

the thing about that is that there is no middle ground on the impact perk, its on or off, boring or frustrating. I think this a a ligit problem and people sweeping it under the rung doesn't do any good.

todd has flawed this once cherished story.l

And what, pray tell, are those agendas? Furthermore, why do you care about them?

I've done this on several occasions and I'm sorry that my rig isn't quite strong enough to record it for you. You seem to be running under a lot of assumptions here and frankly I find it annoying. And no, I did not "get wasted early on". My longest running character yet was an unarmored, unarmed Khajiit that clawed everything to death.

Use of any skill should leave you with a sense of power to be had with it's use, but with destruction there is hardly any difference between 15 and 100 skill and there is little satisfaction to be had with the mild damage perks and static spells.
Something just occurred to me, if destruction requires extensive cost reduction to kill a leveled enemy, why don't other magic schools require the same dedication to function for the duration of a fight? Flesh spells and astronachs will easily last you most encounters just using a modest magicka pool and relevent perks.

I get the feeling Destruction was either poorly managed, or something was changed to game mechanics in development and they forgot to adjust Destruction spell costs.

Uhm... Cast it more then once in different directions?.......... /facepalm

Ive cleared out entire rooms of Bandits in about 3 casts... The aoe range on it is crazy...

Same... You should be able to jump right in and not have to worry about these things, when i play the game i sometimes feel it's more of a chore then an actual game...