the point, yo, is that markers and everything associated with them should be options for the player to control.

They could program the radiant quest giver to give textual instructions so you could turn off your quest marker and still have enough information to complete the quest. For instance, I got a radiant quest to kill a snowbear in a particular house in Riverwood. The game knew what City and what house the snowbear was terrorizing, so it would have been a simple matter for them to program that information into the dialog when the quest giver was giving me the quest. The radiant story element is not the problem here.

Maybe there could be two types of quest markers, and one type could be activated and the other deactivated in the options menu, then we can satisfy everyone. And add general directions as another tab in the menu.

This is not Bethesda's fault, it's the gaming community. It's all over the place, with all game producing companies.
And unfortunately for the rest of us, the community responds: "yep, we can't be bothered to think while playing games. Please treat us like 5-year olds!... and thus they do..
It's just the way the future of gaming is.


And I supposed you didn't bother to actually read the thread? The option to disable the quest markers are quite pointless as long as quest givers and quest logs provide no information what so ever, other than "follow the quest markers". Would it really have been that hard to provide the information needed to find the place on your own, and keep the quest markers in for those that just want to be lead by their nose?

Dumbest thing I ever heard. Half the fun is the EXPLORATION. It`s not a modern day city- It`s a wild medieval world. But nah, you and others like you don`t get it.

Well Bethesda sure succeeded in getting the non-rpgamers here who would never otherwise go near these games.

Wel done, Bethesda, more cash in the bank. Screw traditional rpgs.

Right. No arrow to walk straight to. No challenge, no problem, no gameplay. Why even bother? A game full of the promise of exploration & discovery, only to have magic quest arrows to lead you everywhere. The game practically plays itself, with you as the dolt who fights the baddies at each end, meh.

Thats what i said smart @ s s. But I also said no one should be forced to search for a cave for 4 hours like in morrowind, the almighty.

That persons example was terrible, you just had to go in the inn, how hard was that? What I am talking about, and many others, is being forced to find a cave without any direction across the map or something like that.

I can't agree with this, it's not the gaming community, it really is the publishers/developers. It'd be like saying that the film industry is the way it is because audiences are too dumb to get complicated storylines, they don't make money. And then along come Inception and shows that a complex intricate storyline can make loads of money. It's laziness and lack of imagination at the concept level.

I actually did that with several of my characters in Oblivion, using a fountain pen and fancy journal paper. Kept track of directions, potion recipes, useful hints I learned from reading boods, maps to find stuff that is not "marked" on your map. It was a lot of fun, although at times tedious cause at 3:00 in the morning when you are in the middle of an exciting quest, it can be a pain to have to turn on a light to jot notes in your journal.

Well the entire point of all this discussion is exactly about that - that you DO get directions, only they're NOT in the form of a magic arrow. They're in the form of descriptions that you get from interacting with the AI.

You can follow the markers, or not. Turn them off or on, as you see fit. If there's a bug that doesn't clear a quest, and that's a major sticking point for you, you might want to spend the time you WOULD be playing Skyrim in a psych's chair working on your OCD.

It would be more sensible to have an extra tab for the detailed directions, for people like you that want that extra challenge, and have an option to switch between a vague marker, or specific marker, or none.

Wait, did this really stop after my suggestion?!

I would actually prefer that in most cases, though I do understand that TES is intended as a simulation where you (the player) wander around and experience the world first hand.

Sounds like a challenge; also sounds optional. I remember the same quest was done in Fallout 2; Find Fred (one of the numerous junkies wandering the Den).

I don't see anything wrong with someone telling another person exactly where to go to do a job or favor, and what that favor is.

If the PC met a man on the road with a broken cart, and he asked them to go to his farm and return with his spare wheel... I should have to discover which farm was his on my own?

Quest with marker
Go and talk to X located in Roadside Ruins.

Quest with no marker
Go and talk to X. He was last seen to the north of Falkreath.

Exactly, and have the change available through the options menu, and have different form of quest markers, vague, precise, or none.

Sounds like hell is what it is. And no, when it gets put in my journal, I have to do it. I hate having a lot of active quests (minus the MSC section since it only shows up as one).

Gamers today are no less intelligent than gamers 10 or 20 years ago when rpgs were more complex and had no Quest markers. It`s just companies have made them think they don`t need to think at all to enjoy a game any more to make more money for themselves.

I believe if Bethesda had been braver and not so greedy, and had stayed with the concept of Morrowind, but simply made the GRAPHICS and SOUND and the world more expansive, it would have become nearly as successful if not MORE successful a game today. Lots of people would`ve happily adapted to looking at a map to find locations and adventuring through the world without a single GPS in sight.

The problem with Bethesda is instead of CONVERTING people to RPGS, they converted themselves from rpgs to attract the biggest crowd they could find.

They chose the easy way out. they chose poorly for the future of true rpgs. It`s indeed the Publishers and marketing people that trained and made the gamer lazy for their own profit.

Great idea. It Skyrim like Oblivion, in the sense that NPCs have different schedules? Some of them are pretty intricate, like NPCs that would travel to different cities on certain days of the month, etc

The closest thing Skyrim has to that is the Khajiit caravan, afaik

How hard is it to follow simple instructions? Go past the main bridge outside town, take a left at the intersection, keep going until you see the sign that goes to Markarth, then turn right and just up the road is the entrance to the cave. It's simple instructions. You also have a journal to look over said instructions I gave you.

You clearly know nothing about the gaming community. We don't like be hand fed, but we don't want you to take a grain, blind fold us, throw it far away, then tell us good luck.

If they would have continued making games like that the series would have died off minus a few hardcoe nerds. The reason that Skyrim was so successful, the reason it drew in thousands and thousands of new fans like myself is because of how much more main stream it is. How easy it is to jump in and play.

If Bethesda removes quest markers in ES6 then I can guarantee they will lose millions in profit because people like me, most of the community, are looking for a game they can play without having to devote three hours to a single quest or objective. Something new, fun, and simple to play. Scouring the map, even a small map, for an objective is not fun and is frustrating as hell.

I guess a game that involves "exploration" and "discovery" isn't for you then. Or any game that involves anything more complicated than following onscreen instructions. I have to wonder why you would describe yourself as such a simpleton and also drag along "most of the community" with you. I feel people edging away from you

Incidentally: didn't you ever wonder why Morrowind was such a popular game even with it's community-repellent navigation expectations?

Exploration and discovery is fine. I do it all the time, but do I want to do it every damn time I do a quest? No. When I do a quest I want action, not two hours of searching and half an hour of fighting. I want to be told what to do in detail when I'm playing a game like Skyrim. Could you imagine if Valve didn't tell you what to do in L4D? You arrive at the location and you're told "Something, somewhere nearby or maybe not nearby will cause a distraction that will allow you to leave, but were not gunna give you any hints" and it's a different object every time?

Same thing with Skyrim. Your ignorance precedes you and most of the people on these forums. I'm surprised Bethesda put out such a good game with people like you dominating these forums

Why do you feel that you have been blind folded, and expect to find a single grain? Sorry if TES should go back to its roots, which is to explore the word and discover all the awesome things in it. I personally wouldn't mind going back to an updated journal-style system. It works just fine, since the NPCs usually tell you where it is exactly. The difference? There's not an arrow directly on your screen. That's it. Woe:If you feel that you have to search for hours, you must be doing something wrong.