Heck yeah, I'm disappointed.

Skyrim just... lacks. There's a great atmosphere and a lot of places to go kill things. That's not enough to be a great game, let alone a game of the year (well, apparently, it is these days). Let's just make a nice list of the major complaints:

- the UI isn't even terrible, it's an insult to terrible UIs to make that comparison. NEVER go for looks over usability in a UI, Bethesda!
- the perks are mind-numbingly boring and unimaginitive. Unlike Fallout 3, they're not exciting and novel.
- too many levels gained too easily. I work my tail off for most of my levels in Oblivion (and eventually just buy most of mine in Morrowind), but Skyrim just hands them to me. No investment at all.
- skills level way too fast. Even ones that don't have the bonus to learn. Trust me, I went back to Oblivion, and was immediately struck by how hard it was to get some of my skills to level.
- finishing moves are disruptive and not epic. There's a mod for that, but how much development time was wasted on this nonsense? UGH!
- NPCs have no personality. Figuratively AND literally, this time.
- features such as marriage, cooking, and "work" are all taken to the point of working and left there. Seriously? We're having features from previous games cut because they weren't "good enough" and replacing it with features that are even less fleshed out and entertaining?

On the whole, it's not a BAD game, just not a game that I feel was worth my $60.

I get where you are coming from but I still find the game amazing.

NO ONE on this forum agrees with me, but I still think Oblivion is prettier. Sorry I am not! It was just so visually beautiful once I got my new video card, I was scampering around Ob like a kid at christmas.

the quest glitches get to me. but I do think they have detracted so much from Morrowind that at times it's hard to believe it's the same company.

Still not sorry for the 60 I plunked out for the game, and will buy the DLC's.

Not disappointed at all! Will be playing it for years to come

That doesn't make for an RPG IMO.
(In fact... that you can can do literally anything you want would seem to encourage actions that are out of character, no? To me this detracts credibility from an RPG.)

** I'm still going to buy it though.

I've been wondering if the CK couldn't be used to effectively excise Radiant Story entirely? Would that leave a void too great?

disappointed that the guy playing sparticus died and now we have to watch the show with a replacement? yes very much so.

It blows my mind how people who can present perfectly well reasoned descriptions of what disappointed them about Skyrim, normally focusing on the lack of consequences and linearity of certain quests, then go on to praise Mass Effect.

Maybe it's because I'm new to Elder Scrolls but more familiar with Bioware, but what many claim here is happening to Bethesda is precisely what I think happened to Bioware. Knights of the Old Republic is leagues above any Mass Effect, and seeing how demanding most veteran fans here are with Bethesda, I don't get why they are not the same with Bioware. Are really Mass Effect's quests less linear than Skyrim's? Does Mass Effect really have any relevant consequences for your actions? And don't even get me started with the storytelling...

I agree with a lot of things in the original post, but I don't know many modern games that do what Skyrim offers much better than it. Certainly not Mass Effect. Also, I find it curious that someone who likes the 'several characters living different adventures' approach to Skyrim gets bothered by the lack of different moral paths when trying to complete certain quests. That should be more of an issue for those who, like me, like to complete the whole game with one character.

I actually agree with you 100%. The graphics aren't better, but it's prettier because it more fantastical. Skyrim is rugged. Still gorgeous at times but OB was very pretty with the idyllic forests and atmosphere.

It might be possible, but it would take a lot of work. The world is filled with generic dungeons. That's not to say they look generic, but what's in them is. Then the Radiant Story places an item into the chest at the end or assign you to kill the leader of the dungeon. So you can remove Radiant Story so a quest always sends you to the same place, but it's still going to be just another generic dungeon. To fix that you'd either need to go through and modify the entire dungeon, or really ramp up the impact of the Radiant Story. Radiant Story can do more than it often does. Like with the Companions questline, it replaces the enemies of entire dungeons with members of the Silver Hand. That does tie them to the quests better.

I can′t help but notice how mistaken you are about the nature of TES games. The whole TES concept is built around establishing itself in the middle-ground between first person action and classic fantasy rpg. It has always been action-adventure oriented, Morrowind is not a traditional RPG, it may try to be more traditional RPG than Daggerfall, but does so poorly and neither Oblivion nor Skyrim does any more poorly than Morrowind in that department, the only difference is that they aren′t trying as hard. I believe Bethesda is well aware of the niche they have managed to carve out and dominate and there is absolutely no reason for them to try and shift over to the much more competitive traditional rpg market. If you buy a TES game and expect to get a classic rpg experience, then you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

As someone still intending to finish Mass Effect, I can give you at least one major reason why it's more appealing than Skyrim to some folks:

In Mass Effect, I get choice after choice on how to represent myself. It may not be meaningful (and as I recall, it seldom is), but it makes the difference between having a glob of perks and a character. Which is the difference: I know in Mass Effect, my character will be nice up to a point, then it's get the job done no matter the body count. Your Shepherd might show more restraint, or might do what it takes from the start and skip trying to get the job done nicely.

In Skyrim, I know nothing at all about my character. Nothing. I can look at some overly dramatic menu and see what checkboxes I ticked under cliché fantasy tropes, but that's it.

(whines) But it's not exactly like the Witcher.

When my 11 year old sister beat the main quest in a few days I knew that was the end of Skyrim for me. How many of us played Morrowind for hours and hours as a child not being able to do a single thing?

Some kids are insane with games these days. Some of the best FPS gamers are not much older than your sister.

That aside I was not disappointed because of one thing.

I never believe the hype. I wait for a game or movie to release then take it on its own merit.

I wasn't 11 when Morrowind came out. I was older. But when I was 11, I don't think I would have had that much difficulty with Morrowind.

According to Bioware decisions made in the previous 2 games come to play in the 3rd installment.Such the Rachni from the first game and the Genophage do not want to say to much .That is some pretty big decisions in my books

Morrowind wasn't that complicated in my opinion. The toughest and most time consuming part about Morrowind was deciphering the sometimes sketchy quest directions and trying to find exactly where your trying to go....moving at a slow speed...with 20 cliff racers hovering above you.

Yep, lots of decisions you made from the original Mass Effect showed up in the 2nd, and it will even more so in the 3rd.

It blows my mind how people who can present perfectly well reasoned descriptions of what disappointed them about Skyrim, normally focusing on the lack of consequences and linearity of certain quests, then go on to praise Mass Effect.

Maybe it's because I'm new to Elder Scrolls but more familiar with Bioware, but what many claim here is happening to Bethesda is precisely what I think happened to Bioware. Knights of the Old Republic is leagues above any Mass Effect, and seeing how demanding most veteran fans here are with Bethesda, I don't get why they are not the same with Bioware. Are really Mass Effect's quests less linear tha...

Mass Effect's story is better than Skyrim's, just face it. The writer's were obviously much more talented. Your character has his own voice and those of us who have imported him since the beginning have a very strong tie with him.

The moral decisions in ME are very relevant and nothing in Skyrim even compares to such choices. Skyrim has ME beat with exploration, dungeon crawling, etc, but ME offers a lot of exploration too. Hell, even Mass Effect has stats. The quest lines in Skyrim are not very good, and ME's party and party dialogue features blow Skyrim out of the water.

i think everything you said is true, but lucky for me i like it better this way, not much of an rpg guy.

Right. Wait and see what happens with all that.


Yes, lots of decisions. Some random woman I rescued from a colony I can't even remember showing up to say hello and give me some change.

What Bioware is trying to do with Mass Effect is nice, I still enjoy the games, but there's very little tangible stuff behind all the hype. Characters that actually had a developed arc and certain impact on the first game become mere cameos on the second. Ashley, Kaidan or Liara herself turn into random encounters with little to nothing to do with the Mass Effect 2 storyline, just in case the writers had to come up with too many different alternatives for their purely linear space opera.

You can play the Mass Effect games as a good character, evil character, or same character through both games so far and virtually nothing changes. Bioware's triumph lies on the fact that they successfully deceived countless gamers into thinking that their narrative is organic and malleable, when in fact is terribly linear and predetermined. I really hope I'm wrong and all of a sudden a wide range of possible third acts are offered in Mass Effect 3, but I'm skeptic about that. Bioware's writers themselves have stated publicly that they take screen time away from certain characters as the story progresses to make their own lives easier. In the end, much of Mass Effect 2 was a new start from scratch specifically designed so many choices from Mass Effect 1 wouldn't have to be taken into account. That's not my idea of consequences that matter.

As for the story itself, sure, they definitely came up with a very attractive universe. Much of it based on Star Wars because of the borrowed mechanics from KOTOR, but still attractive. But in terms of strict storytelling they don't tell a very good story, and also tell it poorly. Part of the reason is that strategy to keep important characters away from the action just so their story won't get too complicated by the third game. Another reason can be the childish way in which they force drama into the story by simply having newly met secondary characters cry for a loved one we didn't even know to begin with. There's more to all this, but I think I made my point.

Now, it's any of Skyrim's storylines better than that? Some are, some others no so much. However Skyrim is a much more honest game, and while playing it, I've never found myself witnessing any kind of pretentious cutscene trying to elevate a simple shooter into some science-ficcion classic. Here's a huge world, now go and mess with it. You live your own adventure and make it as big as you think fits, instead of playing through a plethora of grandiloquent scenes to end up realizing that only Mordin is well written and deserves your attention.

My memory of ME is a little hazy, but in Mass Effect 2 I remember a bunch of major moral questions. Several members of your crew may or may not die based on your actions. The Dragon Age games are the same. I'm not trying to take away from Skyrim, but what you say about choices and consequences in Mass Effect rings completely false to me. I remember completing both Mass Effect games and being blown away by the story and the choices I made.

Just to make what I'm trying to say a little more clear, think of the Krogan quest in Mass Effect 2. Now, for anyone reading this who hasn't played the game, the following will obviously be SPOILERS.

Anyway.

As we all know, Wrex can die in Mass Effect 1. His death was one of the most memorable moments in that game for many. Then in Mass Effect 2 you meet another Krogan and eventually go to their homeworld. Once there, you are greeted by a clan leader. Here's where it becomes interesting. That leader can be either Wrex himself or his brother, depending on what you did in Mass Effect 1. Very cool so far, and certainly it sounds like the 'every choice has it consequences' slogan that Bioware loves to remind us. However, the actual plot that develops from here on is exactly the same regardless of who is the Krogan leader, Wrex or his brother.

If Wrex is leader, he will naturally remember you as a friend and welcome you to his planet. If his brother is the leader, one could think that perhaps they wouldn't be so friendly towards the person that killed Wrex, however, that's not the case. Wrex's brother welcomes you in the same friendly way, and even justifies that nosense by saying that there was always a rivalry going on between him and Wrex, and that thanks to you, he can now be leader instead.

See what I'm getting at?

A character name and look change. But nothing else does. Not even the dialogue. The story you are being told is the same darn thing.

And I'm afraid that that example summarizes much of Mass Effect's approach to an 'interactive' story.

after more than 400 hours i would honestly have to say: Best game ever.

I'm the same way.

The only thing I dislike about Skyrim is the friggin' bugs and glitches. Also, sometimes the dungeons get pretty annoying as well. Other than that, one of the greatest games ever made, though I do think that Bethesda should put more resources into dialogue and choices to keep the "RPG purist" crowd from leaving the series to the "Action" crowd.

Skyrim to me is a game where the stories you creat you self are always better than the ones written. Like the time first time i went into a Dwarven ruin, and spent over 2 hours exploing the ruin, and fighting all kinds of Farmars and Dwarven robots. Only to have my companion disappear, and later come back and find her body. Surrounded by 4 farmar bodies. I know she went down like a champ and took as many with her as she could. Also the time where i was in a town and it was attacked by two dragons at once, and it took me and all the towns people all we had to survive the fight. While i do like a well told story that Bioware is known for, the fact is i never played a single Bioware game for more than 60 hours in a single play through. My first Skyrim playthrough is 160 hour and only stopped cause of lag for ps3. My second and current play through is over 90 hours and with a new patch coming theres no end in site. The best thing about Skyrim is the world itself and if it doesn't appeal to you then i doubt you'll like that game as much as those of us who do.

On a side note, I don't know what all the hype is with the Mass Effect games. I picked up ME2, i hadn't played the first one, but I loved KoTOR 1 and 2, and had just played the crap out of DAO so i picked it up. I was throughly disppointed in teh story or lack of one. It seems all i did in the game was go to a planet and recruit people, then later do a mission for that recruit. There just didn't seem to me to have much substance at all. There was very little in the way of weapons and armor. There were plenty of characters to meet, but the quest to get them and the quest i did to recruit them all seemed short. I had recruited all the members and done about half of the follow up quests in about 17 hours or so before i just gave up on the whole thing totally. Also I hate a talking protagonist in games like this, I like to imagine myself as the hero, and when they give that person a name and a voice it takes way that feeling of me being him.