I also hope that they fixed the whole you switch a gun out and its fully reloaded. Ill shoot a couple of times with my Shotgun switch to hunting rfle and switch back to see my shells magically back in the drum.

That doesn't really make any sense. How could a beam of light have recoil unless its a byproduct of the laser firing, but I still don't see how it would happen. Also lasers shoot straight, but that can be explained the recoil can't.

Exactly! There's no force in laser based weaponry, there should be no impulse on either end. Just heat transfer.

Heat transfer might be a reason. What I'm thinking its there might be a heat reduction system in the gun that might cause the recoil, but still.

Yes but realistic isn't always balanced.

For the record, since you've mentioned several times that you don't know if you need to action a gun when you switch to it: you don't. However, it does appear holstered even if your previous weapon was drawn; and if the previous one was drawn (this includes "readied fists"), you automatically draw the new one, otherwise it just sits there holstered. So there's the draw animation to deal with when switching weapons, rather than the action animation; and personally I think it's realistic.

your crazy. i get recoil just from turning on a flashlight.

lol

If turning on a flash-light creates recoil, then a 30 MPH wind should blow us helplessly down the street? :laugh:

There is absolutely no way an energy weapon would create recoil when firing, though other effects (such as static electricity or magnetic fields) would be possible depending on the type of energy and the containment system used. So other than having your hair stand up on end with the more exotic plasma weapons, I really don't see any effects from firing it other than a very mild sunburn if you use it alot.

From the WIKI, "In technical terms, the recoil caused by the gun exactly balances the forward momentum of the projectile, according to Newton's third law. In most small arms, the momentum is transferred to the ground through the body of the shooter; while in heavier guns such as mounted machine guns or cannons, the momentum is transferred to the ground through a mounting system."

There simply is no momentum of metallic objects in a beam weapon to create the kind of energetic momentum needed for recoil. And besides, recoil is probably the least-fun thing about shooting guns - I mean I don't know anyone that Enjoys recoil. We gun owners spend alot of time trying to find the largerst calibur gun with managable recoil. My opinion is that recoil is Too realistic for a video game, no one would enjoy shaking backwards with every shot - and aside from the real life pain of recoil, there's no way to approximate it in the game without dealing Damage or fatiguing the player - again not very much fun.

I don't suspect we will see a ton of time spent on making recoil - there's no reward for it, nothing fun about it, and no point to it in a video game IMHO.

when u guys say "action" a weapon wat u mean its to charge the firearm

just pointing that out

He gets it, if your going to go real go real, i understand some of it is fiction but the more real you make it the more real the experience will be.

i do like that the game has muzzle climb although i dont know how u wont put recoil in a game

No actually what they are referring to is "Cycling the Action".

When a modern non-revolver hand-gun runs out of ammo (and you may have seen this on TV), the slide locks back and the barrel is extended out from the slide. This is the weapon's way of telling you that it's out of ammo. Typically then during reloading, we quickly eject the clip, slam in a new one and the "Cycle the Action" - which is a fancy way of saying we grab the slide and pull it back slightly, then letting it slam forward. By pulling the slide back slightly, that releases the locked slide which grabs a new bullet from the fresh clip and slams the round forward into the barrel chamber, ready to fire.

Miax

yeah that whole process can be refered to as charging a firearm

I want realism in the sense that one or two rounds will kill any unarmored human(Even the player if they qualify as unarmored), or any critter similarly sized.

Much past that I don't think I want it hyper realistic.



I believe the term you want is a semi-automatic. Also, some guns have a latch you can tap with your thumb that releases the slide lock. The Ruger .22LR semi-auto I used to have was quite touchy, sometimes the slide wouldn't actually lock when it ran out. It would fly back, miss the latch and slam all the way forward again. Only clue it was out was the click if you weren't counting shots. You'd have to pull it all the way back to cycle it. Sometimes if you slammed a mag in hard enough it would unlatch just from the force of the mag. It rarely actually jammed(About once per 100 rounds, which was very infrequent for how little we used it, and it had to be fired as fast as possible for it to do it), but the slide still acted wierd.


Honestly, I'd expect a semi-auto in the Wasteland to operate more like the Ruger I had than a proper semi-auto due to age, wear and tear. Slide latch doesn't quite work, random jams when spamming bullets, magazine that doesn't want to advance rounds properly, things like that. It's been sitting out in the desert for two hundred years, it's not going to function properly.

I believe that statement efficiently sums up the idea that should rule the development of video games overall; don't add things that don't contribute to the game.

I get what you're saying, and agree that it's very silly. I think it was an episode of Sanctuary that I was watching, and actress (can't recall names, played Sam Carter on SG1) racked the slide on her pistol THREE times without ever doing anything else with it. Fallout 3 didn't suffer from that problem, though it did force you to action the weapon every reload.

However, the most egregious case of excess animation was Lincoln's Repeater. Every time you action the lever, you push the rifle away from your body and tilt the barrel up to the sky, instead of keeping the stock firmly against your shoulder. Every time it happens I tell myself they probably only did it to balance the rate of fire, but it still infuriates me to watch it.

I doubt you'd just throw them away. the partially full magazine, tank, clip (hunting rifle and chinese pistol) would go back into your inventory. They could make each magazine a separate item with the remaining ammo filling the repair bar for the item. That way you would have to combine ammo units or face eventually coming around to partially full clips/mags while shooting. The old FPS Pathways into Darkness was like that.

I think it would really depend on where the weapon was found. My M1891/30 was made in 1939 it was refurbished between 1970 - 1979 and I picked it up in 2010 and the thing cycles perfectly zero jams and everything works fine. The refurbishment on this rifle was the stock was swaped out with a post war stock other than that all the mechanicals are the same from 1939 which went through all of WWII. So I think a pistol can survive 200 years and still work properly if it was taken care of.

Now if the slide is acting weird and not catching on the last shot I would say have a gunsmith repair it or if you feel compeled to try it yourself replace the slide lock spring. Apparently the tension is so low or the spring could be broke that the force of the recoil spring is overcoming the spring holding the slide lock up and just bypassing it.




Have you fired a lever action rifle before? I have one and theres no way in hell you can [censored] the lever down to eject your fired round and load a new round with the rifle against your shoulder. This one here is so damn tight you have to hold it upside down and use two hands just to get the lever to drop. Might be because its new but typically a lever action rifle is not going to be shot super fast from the shoulder without either A. pratice and alot of upper body strength or B. the weapon was designed to be used quickly. Those lever action rifles used in cowboy action shooting compeitition they can cycle fast at the shoulder like in the old western movies but those lever actions are $1,000+ specailty items made just for that. Mine was a typical commerical model I picked up for under $500. Hell even the straight bolt on my M1891/30 is hard to cycle with the rifle on your shoulder, but thats because its a military rifle with an extra stiff spring and the bolt is a short 2" straight bolt compared to a curved angle bolt which gives you more leverage.

The only thing that was wrong with the Lincoln Repeater rifle was how it was loaded. Lever action rifles like that load from the side and the cartirdges slides forward into the tube magazine. The animation we see is the front is being twisted and the cartridges being dropped down the tube magazine from the top like on my glenfield mod 60 .22 rifle. Problem with this is mine you have to pull out a brass tube with a spring and plunger before loading. The one in FO3 didnt have you do that so theres basically no spring to force the next cartridge back to the action to be cycled properly.

That would actually be a brilliant feature for hardcoe mode. While non-hardcoe players could keep their magically topping off magazines, hardcoe players would have a few magazines in their inventory and would have partially emptied, fully emptied and full mags in their inventory. Complete with a random chance to grab the partial in the heat of battle.

I have. Even when shooting other people's rifles, I haven't run into a spring nearly as stiff as you describe. If I had to guess, I'd say most of them were between 30 and 60 years old, mine is around 45 years old itself; so perhaps there's a difference in manufacturing or wear on the spring. I've never tried to fire as fast as little Ralphie during his Red Ryder dream sequence, but as mine is fitted with a scope, I keep it at my shoulder to cycle it.

The reloading wasn't accurate, but the whole rifle itself was pretty anachronistic all things considered. The OP seemed less concerned with absolute realism than he was with unrealistic animations that took extra time, which is what I tried to limit myself to.

Well, so far I think only 4-5 of you had any idea what this topic was about, and only 2-3 actually answered my question.

So thanks to them.



/endtopic

Ah ok, I guess it comes down to your using old rifles that were nicely broken in. Mine is stiff because its only been fired at most 4 times since I bought it.

But I do agree they do have excessive animations that are unrealistic that adds time to the reloading that it shouldnt be there. In case of the lever action lincoln repeater, all would have to be done is tilt the rifle to the side and push the rounds forward through the loading slot then re shoulder the weapon. But I guess they wanted to make it look like a muzzle loader basically which was very popular during the Civil war but they should do their history because the union started using cartridge repeater rifles near the end of the war as the south was still using muzzle loaders and cap and ball revolvers.

I think personally what needs to be done as I said earlier is give us the option to buy magazines from vendors. More magazines we have quicker reload time but when we run out of fully loaded magazines we then have an animation of a magazine being loaded by hand or stripper clip (or clip as their sometimes called) before attaching the magazine to the weapon. But to be fair I think this option should be added for hardcoe mode only so it doesnt upset people too much.

I'll toss in my agreement that the animations seem to have a constraining factor in Fo3 regarding reloading times, and changing clips out on the other hand is Way too short and easy. It seems they could have spent more time extending reload times and put the extra animation work there, and let the rate of fire be a little more open to how fast the player can pull the trigger. What would be neat would be a reduction of accuracy for follow-up shots that occur less than a second apart - to better simulate the accuracy of spam-shooting versus developing a proper sight picture and actually aiming. But that would require way more change than we will see, and to be honest we have not yet seen the fully story on how good the Obsidian animations are going to be.

My guess is that they will be much improved over Fo3, as they have openly stated they were fixing/addressing and adding animations and that JES is himself a GunNut (who lives in California, probably the 2nd worst state in the nation for gun laws - right behind Maryland - what is it with Zenimax game studios?!). But in all seriousness, the Obsidian folks know their stuff with guns and I suspect we will see a big improvement.

Miax

Correct, thats what I love and still love about the orignal Half Life, with the 9mm pistol you left click your speed is hampered but your accuracy is high. You use the right mouse button and you can shoot faster but your accuracy drops and you can see your rounds hitting all over the place.

Personally I think it would be nice if they had a button option to switch between right click zoom and right click rapid fire. those of us using a mouse and on the pc can remap the control to take advantage of the third mouse button (pushing down of the scroll wheel) to switch.

I just think they could do alot more to improve the guns and make it harder while at the same time alot more fun. I mean I know this isnt a simulator in the traditional sense but its still a simulator non the less because we are "role playing" the game as if we are there trying to survive in a post nuclear world. Its just not a simulator on par with military simulators ive played such as Silent Hunter series where you can make it 100% realistic and its just like its in real life. With this though I think we could benifit with alittle more realistic features when it comes to the fire arms, the loading times, loading animations, ect in hardcoe mode.

I know I would love to have the option in hardcoe mode where at any moment your gun could have an issue or that theres a chance of you dropping the magazine and having to pick it back up when reloading in a fire fight. Would make the situation all the more dramatic coupled with the fact that the ammunition has weight now and you can only carry a limited amount.

That's a rather interesting idea, but seems difficult to implement. Many of us would reload our empty mags between combat, which we'd probably have to do through the Pip-Boy, in which case what's to stop people from using the Pip-Boy to pause combat and reload? Hmm. They could be items you have to equip in the Pip-Boy, and then press the fire button to reload once you're out of the menu (which could end up being tedious), or make bringing up the menu not pause the game. I guess that's why I don't get paid to design video games.

I suppose I'm also a bit harsh on Lincoln's Repeater. But I remember an interview with Todd Howard (I think) talking about the death animations, and explaining that they wanted repetitive actions to always be visually appealing. Since the Repeater is one of my favorite guns, I've fired an amazing number of rounds from it since having access to the ammo press in the Pitt, and it's certainly not visually appealing to me.

Interestingly, I went back to double check some production dates, and it seems the reload animation is actually correct. I was also wrong about ammunition, it seems Henry produced a .44 cartridge several years before S&W, so they were available before the end of the war.