People don't like that they need to be full-on mages to do big damage and now magic is not the most broken thing in the game anymore.


No, really, Destruction magic is still viable after level 50, even with master spells. While firestorm and blizzard seem to be lacking in usage, lightningstorm can easily decimate nearly everything.

Maxxed oun non exploited 1-h sword is about 200 damage. Dual weild, it's 400. With non-looped enchantments, that goes somewhere to 1200. Add in the fact that you can have endless power attacks if you have one or 2 absorb stamina enchants damage goes to... I have lost count...

And that is with without looping enchanting and alchemy... which is the only exploit that exists in the system - the rest is simply the system as it was supposed to work. And you don't have to exploit that loop anyway, everything is 1 hit material even without the loop...





No - the ideal build for a destro mage is all points to health, heavy enchanted armor and alchemy. If that is considered a full-on mage then ok, I pass...

Also, the average player runs out of things to do by level 40, so being good at level 50 does not really help much...

Also, I'd suggest anyone who has issues with their magicka try an Altmer. That once a day magicka regen bonus is pretty dope. You can barely spend the magicka fast enough. Sure, it's once a day, but I generally don't do more than 1 boss fights a day.

Weakness to elemental damage works, as long as the weapon is enchanted for such. And I havent even considered critical damage increases, nor power attack damage increases. Neither of which destructions gets. On top of that is a further increase if I choose to sneak.

Once you loop in all non-looped enchants as fair game, the magicka cost for all destruction spells disappear.

So when you said not counting your weapon enchantments, you meant counting your weapon enchantments.

With the difference that it still does 5-10 times less damage than weapons, and weapons have had 0 cost from the very begining...

Best leave destruction mages to those of us who want a challenge, then.

No *sigh* thats a reading comprehension failure. My standard damage with the weapon is 493 with an additinal 40 damage from elemental weapon enchantments. Without EITHER of us using potions to supplement the damage my "standard" damage of 490 is above your standard damage including you dual casting.

Your damage is capped at an absolute maximum, mines is also. If we both take in to account the same factors to increase damage my absolute maxiumum is well above your absolute maximum.*

Look its as simple as this; No matter what you use to increase destruction damage, there is an equivalent for melee AND then additional ways to add further damage to melee which destruction does not have.

*Note; This means no exploits. We both have limits when we dont exploit.

Weapons have that minor disadvantage that you actually have to get close to the enemy...

Warriors have that minor advantage that they can actually put all level ups in HP and not svck in the process.

You can get the cost of spells to only 1% of the base with only 100 destro skill, master level perks and using 100 skill + perks enchanting no need for potions.


Sorry to burst your bubble but a 1h sword made with 100 smithing + perks ( no gear and pots) and with 100 skill enchanting and perks goes only to 187 dmg ( posted in another thread by a guy that used that as an example why destro is weak to him ). Even if you can dual wield it dosnt change the fact that a dual power attack is just 3 swings and a singe swing will take the same amount of time as a dualcast. So even if dual wielding you got 2x187dmg its still 187dmg per swing. Yeah you can power attack for 2.5x multiplier but I can use a 2 poison too get 3x multiplier for my dmg and my destro pot gives me 50% more dmg that your one-handed pot.

Sneak attacks dont concer me becuase you need to actualy get close and undetected so its a fair gain for the trouble you have to take. Criticals when attacking normaly on the other hand have so low success chance that it dosnt even play a major role in dmg dealing. And power attacks using 1 stamina is just exploiting so if you use it your argument is void. A Dual power attack with deadric cost nearly ~80 stamina so if you want to play fair you would need to convert your pure heath build into a 2:1 health/stamina.


I`m not saying using gear and pots is exploting. Its exploiting after you hit the max level that should be capped ( 100 skill + perks ) and still using those. I have no problem of using them before I go past the max level of smithing. Those gear and pots wear there to make non smithing people get close to the max smithing level without getting the max benefit and without ability to craft gear like ppl who got 100 skill and perks.


Elemental dmg from weapons isnt afected by your level and gear or any multipliers like criticals and power attacks. Without the destro perk they are 50% weaker than on a sword mage build and without aditional 2-3 perks in enchanting they are even weaker. Without destro cost reduction gear you will run out of charges so you need to recharge your stuff too and then your not a pure warrior build using them. Your 493 dmg sword is made using exploited smithing and enchanting that is at least looped one or twice.

Forgeting all that I posted I can still poison my target with weakness to poison,magic and element and get 250-300% more dmg out off my expert spells and I can drink a pot that is at least 50% stronger than your one-handed pot. With just the weakness poison my dmg goes past your sword dmg base but yeah even with the extra dmg pot Im gonna be still 300 dmg total less than your power attack while using two weapons.

You can make -25% spell cost enchants at 100 Enchant without any potion or the like. Put that on 4 armor parts and you get 0% spells without a single enchant loop or whatever.

Its clear you simply dont understand many of the points raised nor do you undestand the difference between using the system as intended and designed and exploiting. And your comprehension of what points have been raised in this thread and the mathmatics involved is severly lacking. To wit I wont bother replying to your posts in this thread from now on, as they are simply nonsensical.

Please go back and re-read the thread and remove your bias either way to understand the points raised.

Right it should be 0 cost and scratch the master perk and any need for magica Pure health build.
No need to invest in any other tree than enchanting and you can make a puire health build with 2 magic schools for free.
Need more dmg just 1 perk in novice and 3x2perks if you want fire/ice/shock so minimumn 3 perks in destro needed.
Can use vendor bought poisons and destro pots so no need to go alchemy.

So 1 tree for a mage vs 3 trees for a warrior. Yeah late game a warrior will be a bit stronger than a mage but a mage will be strong from start till the time the warrior gets the skills he needs (if he dosnt grind them )


You mad bro ? Its just opinions dont rage there

When you are vulnerable and easy to kill, that is a challenge.
When you cannot kill things fast it is not a challenge - it is simply slow.

Destruction mages are not any more or less vulnerable to enemies than a warrior or an archer - they are just slower at killing stuff. So if you're looking for a challenge, you won't really find it in destro mages...

No way your standard damage without smithing and enchanting is 490, no [censored] way, I have a two handed character that uses smithing, and is level 50, and when you make a standard weapon they are NOT that strong, you are simply lying.

I run destruction on master and have zero problems at level 50, so yeah, you are just doing it wrong.

it's weaker then all other attack skills and at high lvls on higher difficulty is underpowered...trying to play "pure" mage wearing robes and no weapons makes it insane

I have noticed that since I left my companion at home Destruction magic seems a lot better. There's just so much you can't do with a companion around. It's a shame they had to have friendly fire turned on. I wouldn't care if it took the companion out of the fight but I don't like that it actually kills them. It's pretty stupid to be honest. I can take her down with one of my whimpiest spells but a powerful Necromancer can hit her with some high end blast and she just drops to one knee. I don't care for that mechanic. If I was on PC that's one of the first things I would mod.

Ofc you have no problems at 50... but what about early levels. Say around level 20, where you have around 40 skill in destro and the best spell you have is fireball, and your enchanting is still too low to be of much use... what then?

Then you are doing it wrong. I do it no problem. level 52 on master, zero problems. Note : A pure mage would use enchantments and alchemy to their advantage, if you dont, then you are a restricted mage.

Still had no problem. I dual wielded staffs when I ran out of magika. And made destruction fortification potions from an early level, and used cost reduction enchanting at an early level, like a curious student would....they would experiment,

What I'd like to see is a spell like flames, but with an even shorter range, but damage on par with dual wielding swords (when dual cast.) It is probably better to compare magic damage to bows rather melee though (which I've http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii167/bl3count/rangeddamage-1.jpg, it has a significantly higher dps, but no stealth attack bonus.)

This makes no sense. If I kill something in 5 seconds I'm much less "vulnerable" than if I kill something in 120 seconds. That's much longer for something to go wrong, more time taking damage, more time for, well, everything. Also, as a mage, you'll have lower health and lower armor than a warrior or an archer, making you more vulnerable and easy to kill, making it...... more challenging. Right?

And in essence, this is the only real difference in difficulty between Adept and Master. Are you saying that playing at Master is no more of a challenge than playing at Adept?

Woah woah woah.... the whole complaint about destruction magic that everyone else has is that it's fine as your'e moving up and then becomes useless at the higher levels. So you're going out on your own limb to say that it's the reverse?