What faction are you most allied with? : Fallout: New Vegas

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:32 am

No, the U.S. military. They are still remnant's of that military, albeit they handled themselves kind of like seperate corp. that has its own doctrine.

They are remnants of U.S. military deserters yes. Enclave troopers however, are the actual remnants of the U.S. military.

The point still stands that they have no right to the technology that they "claim". They don't even really care about anything non-military.

They came to the conclusion that it is human nature to destroy themselves so they seek to prevent a second apocalypse by safeguarding dangerous knowledge from those that have not been indoctrinated. It's a noble goal that makes sense in a post apocalyptic setting especially.

Do they live up to the standards they set? Do they prevent wars and stop people from killing each other with energy weapons? Did they not go to war with the NCR over a dispute about who owns the tech?

Are the hypocrites? Yes.

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:29 am

They came to the conclusion that it is human nature to destroy themselves so they seek to prevent a second apocalypse by safeguarding dangerous knowledge from those that have not been indoctrinated. It's a noble goal that makes sense in a post apocalyptic setting especially.

Thank you. You get it, I wish more would. I have faith in the Brotherhood, they have more of the right idea than anyone out there.

There are active groups in the fallout world that seek only conquest, enslavement, greed, corruption, and even extermination. And yet the Brotherhood goals get questioned like it's the worst one of them all.

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:44 am

There are active groups in the fallout world that seek only conquest, enslavement, greed, corruption, and even extermination. And yet the Brotherhood goals get questioned like it's the worst one of them all.

Because honestly, there isnt any difference. Taking tech and killing/going to war with anyone who doesn't support your "claim" to "save people from laser rifles" is no better than attempting territorial conquest.

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:25 am

There are active groups in the fallout world that seek only conquest, enslavement, greed, corruption, and even extermination. And yet the Brotherhood goals get questioned like it's the worst one of them all.

Because they have no long-term objective, they don't do anything; did you see the Sawyer interview I posted where he says that the war is over Energy Weapons that the NCR refused to relunquish to the Brotherhood? Also, that the loading quote in NV says, "The Brotherhood waged a long and bloody war with the NCR." They started the war because of their own greed.

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:18 am

Because honestly, there isnt any difference. Taking tech and killing/going to war with anyone who doesn't support your "claim" to "save people from laser rifles" is no better than attempting territorial conquest.

Oh really? So kicking people out of their homes, keeping them down, forcing them to be citizens and paying NCR taxes or in the Legion's case becoming slaves or being forced into their slave army is WORSE than what the Brotherhood does? The Enclave basically exterminating people on a genocidal level is more noble than what the Brotherhood does?

Why doesn't the Enclave shoot at people who can shoot back? It's not like that power armor and energy weapons come in handy when they kill unarmed civilians.

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:21 am

The Enclave basically exterminating people on a genocidal level is more noble than what the Brotherhood does?

Why doesn't the Enclave shoot at people who can shoot back? It's not like that power armor and energy weapons come in handy when they kill unarmed civilians.

Has either of us claimed that the Enclave is better morally than the Brotherhood? Nope. Not once. We know the Enclave aren't good people. Its a matter of "the ends justfying the means".

Our point is, that when you get right down to it. The Brotherhood isn't a whole lot better. At least the Enclave has a set end goal though.

We recognize what our faction is and has done, you however, seem to be floating in a sea of denial.

Edit: grammer

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:03 pm

Our point is, that when you get right down to it. The Brotherhood isn't a whole lot better.

The Brotherhood has a lot of flaws, but their goals, as imperfect and morally-questionable as they are, are far more reliable in a post-apocalptic world than conquest, enslavement, and extermination.

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:28 pm

Why doesn't the Enclave shoot at people who can shoot back? It's not like that power armor and energy weapons come in handy when they kill unarmed civilians.

Chill there Gunny, you have a giant ass robot. The NCR shot back, the Brotherhood shot back; the Enclave didn't start any wars is why, they used science on captured people which doesn't warrant any real battle.

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:23 am

The Brotherhood has a lot of flaws, but their goals, as imperfect and morally-questionable as they are, are far more reliable in a post-apocalptic world than conquest, enslavement, and extermination.

I have yet to see anything that the Brotherhood has done to justify that statement to me.

Granted, the CWBOS has made some progress and so has the MWBOS (possibly), but they are an offshoot branch which has lost all commnication and connection with the actual "BOS".

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:49 am

They are remnants of U.S. military deserters yes. Enclave troopers however, are the actual remnants of the U.S. military.

The point still stands that they have no right to the technology that they "claim". They don't even really care about anything non-military.

Again, they safeguard dangerous knowledge from the irresponsible.

Do they live up to the standards they set? Do they prevent wars and stop people from killing each other with energy weapons? Did they not go to war with the NCR over a dispute about who owns the tech?

Are the hypocrites? Yes.

Well, they have to use force sometimes to confiscate the tech from organizations like the NCR. They naturally view the NCR as especially dangerous to have such knowledge. They are trying to reestablish the US government - the ultimate threat.

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:29 am

I have yet to see anything that the Brotherhood has done to justify that statement to me.

Granted, the CWBOS has made some progress and so has the MWBOS (possibly), but they are an offshoot branch which has lost all commnication and connection with the actual "BOS".

But, but, but, the CWBOS is what I am talking about precisely. This is what the Brotherhood can achieve at their full potential. After 50 -100 years or so, I wouldn't be surprised to find Brotherhood chapters being forced to deal with situations outside their walls. The question is how will they react.

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:41 am

The Brotherhood has a lot of flaws, but their goals, as imperfect and morally-questionable as they are, are far more reliable in a post-apocalptic world than conquest, enslavement, and extermination.

Because they have no long-term objective, they don't do anything; did you see the Sawyer interview I posted where he says that the war is over Energy Weapons that the NCR refused to relunquish to the Brotherhood? Also, that the loading quote in NV says, "The Brotherhood waged a long and bloody war with the NCR." They started the war because of their own greed.

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:06 pm

Again, they safeguard dangerous knowledge from the irresponsible.

It seems to me that starting wars, raiding civilians for their tech, and galavanting about pretending to be Knights of Yore is the very definition of "irresponsible".

Well, they have to use force sometimes to confiscate the tech from organizations like NCR. .

So they protect people from energy weapons by using force to take energy weapons?

Yeeahhh. That makes sense. :rolleyes:

But, but, but, the CWBOS is what I am talking about precisely. This is what the Brotherhood can achieve at their full potential.

You should know then. That what the CWBOS has done are not the goals of the real "BOS".

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:41 am

Here is something about the Enclave that would be smarter.

Instead of "correcting" genetic mutations by simply exterminating people. Why don't they just use their vast technological superiority to cure people of genetic mutation through medicine?

They would gain citizens in the process and grow naturally.

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:24 pm

Instead of "correcting" genetic mutations by simply exterminating people. Why don't they just use their vast technological superiority to cure people of genetic mutation through medicine?

That still does not solve the problem of how to reestablish conrol over a land that is fractured, divided, and would kill you as soon as look at you.

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:51 am

It seems to me that starting wars, raiding civilians for their tech, and galavanting about pretending to be Knights of Yore is the very definition of "irresponsible".

So they protect people from energy weapons by using force to take energy weapons?

Yeeahhh. That makes sense. :rolleyes:

Studying advanced tech such as laser rifles can lead to the development of much more devestating weapons.

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:39 am

Studying advanced tech such as laser rifles can lead to the development of much more devestating weapons.

So in other words, the Brotherhood want that ability for themselves.

If they truly believed in "saving" people from energy weapons. They would destroy any technology they came across instead of hoarding it.

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:07 am

Well, they have to use force sometimes to confiscate the tech from organizations like the NCR. They naturally view the NCR as especially dangerous to have such knowledge. They are trying to reestablish the US government - the ultimate threat.

Then they really are stupid aren't they, what's Losty Hills ultimate plan? And stop using ther word 'confiscate' the word is loot, mug, steal whatever; confiscate implies that they have a right.

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:41 pm

So in other words, the Brotherhood want that ability for themselves.

If they truly believed in "saving" people from energy weapons. They would destroy any techonolgy they came across instead of hording it.

It's only logical for them to want to have an advantage over their potential adversaries.

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:34 pm

It's only logical for them to want to have an advantage over their potential adversaries.

You don't see the hypocrisy in that?

They want to save people form energy weapons, by using energy weapons on people so they can take their energy weapons, in order to develop more deadly techology to take more energy weapons?

Show me the logic.

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:29 pm

Then they really are stupid aren't they, what's Losty Hills ultimate plan? And stop using ther word 'confiscate' the word is loot, mug, steal whatever; confiscate implies that they have a right.

Maybe the Brotherhood did a favor for everyone. That and the Brotherhood confiscated energy weapons off of NCR caravans, that's why you never see NCR troops with energy weapons.

If the Brotherhood didn't confiscate those weapons, the NCR could march straight through the Legion to Chicago and decimate the Enclave. Making the NCR the sole corrupt oppressive super power in North America.

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:54 am

You don't see the hypocrisy in that?

They want to save people form energy weapons, by using energy weapons on people so they can take their energy weapons, in order to develop more deadly techology to take more energy weapons?

Show me the logic.

There isn;t any, that's the point. They have no long-term objectives, no great plan; even the Legion could evolve given 100 years, what has or can the Brotherhood do in it's current state?

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:07 am

There isn;t any, that's the point. They have no long-term objectives, no great plan; even the Legion could evolve given 100 years, what has or can the Brotherhood do in it's current state?

The Legion and NCR would implode on itself because they are entities that only consume via unending conquest. And when they crumble, all the lives they have taken to get to that point where the gears grind would be for nothing.

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:48 am

There isn;t any, that's the point. They have no long-term objectives, no great plan; even the Legion could evolve given 100 years, what has or can the Brotherhood do in it's current state?

My thoughts exactly.

» Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:10 am

Then they really are stupid aren't they, what's Losty Hills ultimate plan? And stop using ther word 'confiscate' the word is loot, mug, steal whatever; confiscate implies that they have a right.

No, they dont have the right to take people's sh!t just as Batman doesnt have the right to do what he does. He breaks into people's homes and does detective work without a warrant and he bugs people's phones without a warrant and then also uses excessive force to get people to talk so sh!t happens.